Re: Newest Update


"Matt Ion" <soundy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Spdloader wrote:
"Matt Ion" <soundy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Spdloader wrote:

"Spdloader" <askforit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Hi, I'm new to the group, but my daughter has a Honda now so I'll be
lurking.
I didn't find anything on this exact problem in a search so:

Vehicle is a 1998 Civic DX 5spd.

Dead battery prompted a test of the alternator, which wasn't charging
at all.
Replaced alternator, and externally charged battery overnight. The car
started fine the next morning, and it worked fine for about 1/2 a day,
charging between 13.8v and 14.2v, then the speedo quit working, then
that evening the headlights were dim.

Next morning, battery was weak again, I charged the battery for a
while, then started it, but now there is a no charge condition again,
verified with a Fluke meter at the battery, but not at the alternator.

A brief check of the fuse block under the dash revealed a blown 10A
fuse, Alternator / Speedo. Replaced it, had a charge at the battery,
then blew the fuse when moving the vehicle in the driveway.

I suspect the vehicle speed sensor has a bad connection or is
malfunctioning. Any other ideas before I dive back in tomorrow?

Thanks in advance!

Spdloader



Alternator taken off and tested, charged 20volts, 20amps on the bench,
and voltage regulator bad.

New alternator installed, worked perfectly for 5 mins, then fuse blew,
and I'm right back to square one.

Gonna go have a Mt. Dew now.

So something else is killing the voltage regulator(s - 4 of them now!),
which then of course isn't regulating the output properly. Going by the
schematic I found for the '97 Civic
(http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/media/manuals/CivicManual/pdf/23-a96.pdf),
that would most likely lead back to the ECU connection. The regulator
actually controls the voltage across the field coil of the alternator,
which of course affects the voltage produced by the rotor coils. From
the diagram, it looks like the ECU also "injects" a voltage at the low
side of the coil, which would allow it to alter the delta voltage in
addition to the regulator (note: I have a good background in general
electronics, but am not trained specifically in modern automotive
charging systems, so some of this is just educated guessing).

A short in that ECU lead SHOULD'T affect the regulator directly, as
there's a diode there that would block any reverse current flow if the
ECU lead were to short to ground, but maybe the '98's alternator is
different - without that diode, a short could potentially fry the
regulator, allowing full voltage to flow through the field coil and cause
the rotor coil output to spike. Or it might not even be affecting the
regulator - just shorting that lead would have the same effect (then
again, if it's testing overvoltage on the bench, the regulator probably
is fried - damn).

So there you have it. Short of looking at a proper schematic of the '98,
my best guess is still a problem in the ECU. The cooked regulators are a
symptom, not the root of the problem.


I'd love to see a schematic of how the regulator itself is set up inside,
it would help the diagnosis.


I wonder if there is something else in the circuit, i.e. sensors such as
O2, or something that could be shorted somehow.

I don't think there'd be anything else specifically on that wire... the
sensors would have their own connections to the ECU.

I think I'll let it rest over the weekend and do some fishing. I think I
can do that right.

Heheh... like I said, try checking with a wrecker, see if you can get
another ECU for cheap, and swap it in.

Thanks for all your work and help Matt, I'll get to a salvage yard right
after some fishing.
Spdloader


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Newest Update
    ... Replaced alternator, and externally charged battery overnight. ... and voltage regulator bad. ... So something else is killing the voltage regulator, ...
    (rec.autos.makers.honda)
  • Re: Newest Update
    ... Dead battery prompted a test of the alternator, ... The regulator actually controls the voltage across the field coil of the alternator, which of course affects the voltage produced by the rotor coils. ... From the diagram, it looks like the ECU also "injects" a voltage at the low side of the coil, which would allow it to alter the delta voltage in addition to the regulator. ...
    (rec.autos.makers.honda)
  • Re: my new alternator is 194 degrees,..
    ... Alternator operating temperatures in general and it stated normal ... minutes until the battery voltage comes up, ... It should pull from the regulator side and blow out ...
    (rec.boats.cruising)
  • Re: Alternator manager for old yanmar?
    ... The new digital alternator managers/alternator to battery ... Can they be installed without a normal alternator regulator in the ... So whats your idea about this?(just asking for free of charge technical ...
    (uk.rec.sailing)
  • Re: Land Rover Disco 3 voltage regulator levels
    ... LR use a similar system to what Ford invented for the Focus It's called smart charge and the ECU controls the alternator field excitation. ... Anyway, the idea is that with a cold battery, the alterntor can pump in the juice at a much higher rate, so the ECU alters things accordingly via the ambient air temp sensor, and the battery compartment sensor. ...
    (uk.rec.cars.maintenance)
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