Re: Green Fuels?

Spike wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:45:03 -0500, Michael Johnson <cds@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Just wait until biofuels impact on food prices hit the average Joe citizen. It is already occurring and if this whole biofuel debacle isn't stopped it will get much, much worse. All the hype that biofuel is as viable an alternative to oil as other alternative fuel sources like solar, hydro, geothermal etc. is about as grounded in logic, science and economics as is the environmentalists' global warming movement.

IMO, if we are going to invest in alternative energy production lets do it smart by harvesting wind, geothermal, tides, ocean currents, solar etc. Not by methods that are more destructive to the environment than drilling for oil.

Spike wrote:
Environmental lawsuits block ethanol expansion
So let’s get this straight: Ethanol is supposed to be the gasoline
replacement that eases our oil imports and pays a dividend for the
American farmer, while at the same time yielding environmental
benefits from a cleaner, renewable fuel, right? So why are
environmental groups around the country suing to halt construction of
ethanol-producing facilities? If you haven’t learned by now that
things that sound too good to be true are too good to be true, I’d
like to talk about how you can make millions selling real estate
without a single dollar down... but that’s another matter.

Now that the bloom is off the corn fuel, er, flower, some hard truths
are emerging. By now, you probably know about speculation and wild
fluctuations in grain futures, about pork-barrel projects, and about
questions of how much energy goes into ethanol production in the first
place. What you may not have heard about is the strain that the 140 or
so existing ethanol plants place on local infrastructure.

When US Envirofuels began the permitting process for Florida’s first
ethanol plant in Tampa, the city put their plans on hold when it
emerged that the facility would require 400,000 gallons of water per
day to operate — far more than the drought-stricken municipality can
safely supply.

Tampa shouldn’t have been surprised, though. In Missouri, Gulfstream
Bioflex Energy’s plans to build a plant near Fordlands has run into a
lawsuit by the local Citizens for Groundwater Protection, over
Gulfstream’s plans to draw over 1.3 million gallons a day from the
depleted Ozark aquifer. Missouri water rights currently allow anyone
to use as much as they desire.

Similar legal battles are being fought in Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska,
Kansas and Illinois. “Green,” it turns out, is a matter of
perspective.
- By David Traver Adolphus

NOTE: According to a recent agricultural report....
the US could not possibly produce enough corn to alleviate foreign
dependence without replacing all other crops... farmers will produce
crops for whoever pays the most.... if it is fuels, then there will be
a shortage in foods and therefore food prices will climb.
Of course if we could drill sideways and suck the oil out from under
the desert... at least until the middle east falls into the
sinkhole.... that might not be a bad idea either.

I say we just make Saudi Arabia the 51st state and let Exxon/Mobil suck the place bone dry.

One of these days, we're going to run out of oil. When is a question
since nobody really knows how much there is down there. Before it gets
to that point, there will be war.... MAJOR war.... for control of
what little may remain.... unless an alternative is found. Thus
nature's normal balance will be returned through the loss of so many
billions of people.

There is more to fossil fuels than just oil and when you add coal, gas and all the various forms of crude oil (tar sands etc.) the currently known supply will last for hundreds of years. Then include the methane hydrate supplies in the ocean floor and that number bumps to well over 1,000 years. There is plenty of fossil fuel to last until we come up with a cheaper more environmentally friendly alternative.

I don't think war can remove several billion people from the planet. Plagues, viruses and starvation are Nature's most efficient ways of correcting imbalances. I don't see mankind bucking that trend forever.

All the programs the US government provides won't mean diddly. BUT, if
a government program was instituted to convert to actually green
power, combined with government incentives for homeowners, business
owners, etc to convert to green solutions, we might last a bit longer.

The future kinda looks like the new movie release... "10,000BC" :0)

Economics will drive the move to "green" fuels and energy sources. If the price of oil keeps rising it will happen sooner than later. China and India developing at a ferocious pace will insure it.
.

Relevant Pages

  • The Federal Flex-Fuel Corn Lobby Fraud
    ... the benefit of the politically powerful ethanol lobby. ... has put into place a loophole in its Corporate Average Fuel Economy ... average" of 27.5 mpg for cars and 21.5 mpg for trucks or face so-called ... uses oil in its production (everything from ...
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  • Re: Recession music
    ... Germany and Japan were trying to secure oil supplies to fuel their ... Which country produces more ethanol, ... Brazil launched its "energy independence" push in 1975, ...
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  • Re: Study Says Ethanol Not Worth the Energy
    ... First there was the comment that it takes 29% more fuel to produce ... Ethanol than what you get from Ethanol. ... regularly plants 660 acres of corn. ... He speaks of huge subsidies given to oil exploration ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Green Fuels?
    ... is as viable an alternative to oil as other alternative fuel sources ... science and economics as is the environmentalists' global warming movement. ... drilling for oil. ... Ethanol is supposed to be the gasoline ...
    (rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang)
  • Re: No One Has A Realistic Plan to Lower Gas Prices In The Near Future
    ... drillable land already under control of the oil companies. ... its own issues they are grappling with (Google- Ethanol fuel in Brazil). ... He's going to end the federal raids on state medical marijuana. ...
    (rec.music.gdead)