Re: More power to the police in high speed pursuit

On Fri, 04 May 2007 16:38:48 -0500, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@xxxxxxxxx
(Brent P) wrote:

SNIP

I see.... control by the authorities for all. Track and log everyone and
everything. If this goes in typical fashion you will proceed to
call me paranoid because I don't like this sort of thing.... but who is
really the paranoid? Those that opposes this sort of monitoring and
control or the those demanding it to stop those they are affraid of?

A public service from me. Realize that the law enforcement officer
does not know the situation when he pulls you over.

That's my other argument against road-side taxation and why speed limits
need to make sense to minimize stops. It puts the officer's life at risk
to collect a little revenue.

I think you are confusing taxation with penalties.

Nope, I see things in their effective terms. There isn't a crime in going
75mph in 75mph traffic just because the sign says 55mph. It's just a tax
disguised as a penalty.

WRONGO, Brent. There are two forms of speed limits. One is posted, and
the other is governed by conditions (snow, traffic, wind, etc). Just
because the law says you can go 75mph does not mean it is safe to do
so, and therefore the "speed too fast for conditions" applies for the
safety of other motorists as well as yourself.

The former is a
surcharge levied against goods or wages, and disassociated from
criminal action. The latter is a fee exacted upon someone who has
broken a law, hopefully a deterrent to further disobedience.

When speed limits are set lower than the vast majority of people drive,
it is effectively a selectively applied tax on driving.

What you propose then is to remove all speed limits just because
somebody out there wants to go faster than the posted limit. Hiuman
nature says that no matter where you set the bar, there will be people
who want to pass it. Just look at the people who speed to get from
point A to point B compared to those who do not speed, and you see the
time saved is insignificant, so why do they speed? Human nature.

When you are lit
up, try to pull over where passing traffic will not constitute a hazard
to the officer(s), who is looking at you and does not have eyes in the
back of his head.

And there's the other risk to the revenue collection. Stops should be
minimized to those that are actually needed and the officers wouldn't be
put at risk so often.

How about if we just tell the cops not to stop anyone so that they
will never be at risk?

It's virtually impossible for any officer to know which are "needed"
and which aren't prior to a stop.

Really? usually in these arguments I'm told that the officer will only go
after those bad people. That it is paranoia to think that one would be
picked out of the traffic stream if one is just going along with the
flow (which is over the posted limit). Glad you agree with me. It's a
risky way to go about collecting monies for one's employer.

Envision the police pulling over
someone for failing to signal a lane change, and finding the driver way
over the Blood Alcohol level and still miles from home. Necessary? You
need some schooling in the streetside implementation of Probable Cause.

You're missing the point. By making the speed limit such that nearly
every driver is a violator, it makes for a great number of stops where
then bad decisions may be made, where no stop was even needed because
there wasn't any unsafe driving (as defined by what is normal and
reasonable, and safe by the actions of those driving upon the road). Just
driving faster than arbitary taxation standard.

As far as revenue goes, you also need to understand that no agency
has bottomless funding. It costs money not only to respond to domestic
disturbances and overt crimes, but also to investigate covert criminal
activity and build cases for submission to the District Attorney's
office. This stuff adds up, and sometimes the well runs dry. Where's
the money gonna come from?

Those in elected office have no problem redirecting tax monies away from
police departments and other things people support and then whining for
a tax increase to keep the wanted services going. Far better than
redefining the vast majority of people as law breakers and then taking the
monies with armed man at the side of the road.

And what about the small agencies? How about Kid Yahoo's cousin
deciding to run from the law, and 3 of the 6 local PD's car get wrecked
in the process? How would you like to need emergency assistance in that
town and not get it because they have no bucks for replacement
vehicles?

Well I guess they'll just have to drop the speed limit on the highway
just outside of the populated area of town from 50mph to 35mph and raise
some cash then, right? Of course that will result in more people that
run from the law and more wrecked police cruisers to pay for so they'll
have to drop it to 25mph and put a few RLCs and cut the yellow light
timing to maximize the number of violators... but then they'll be called
out for the increased number of (rear-end) collisions at the light, but
don't worry that can be used to justify more RLCs....

Using the above and politeness will often go a long way towards a
lesser ticket, or maybe no ticket at all. You will often be asked where
you learned all that. Tell them someone that used to be in the system
mentioned it, and it made good sense.

It's showing the submissiveness to the state. I don't particularly like
it, but have done it in the past. It's a social-animal thing really. I
would prefer to live in a free country again.

You're living in a dream if you think this country has ever been
"free".

Perhaps. But I know what it is supposed to be.

The ability to move about relatively unhindered has a price.

Comrade, do you have your papers? This checkpoint is here for your
safety, comrade. Sorry comrade, your papers are not in order.... Remember
when we looked down on the soviet block nations for that sort of thing?
Now it's done here. Who really won that cold war?

The U.S. has more taxes and fees than any other country in the world.

But not higher....

No ***.

You PAY for your "freedom".

Someone has to pay the guards.

Matter of fact, the "roadside revenue" that
you complain endlessly about is one of the *only* payouts that you can
actually avoid by your own actions.

If I include the harrassment from other drivers because I am going so
slow (posted limit), being rear ended, etc and so forth I hardly think I
am coming out ahead. I am simply denying the money to the government(s)
that created the problem, but I am not avoiding costs and taking on
greater risks to boot.

If you are feeling overwhelmed by American society, I suggest
seriously looking into residing elsewhere. You will not be alone. There
are enclaves of former Americans all over the place. These days, the
Internet helps diffuse much of the homesickness.

Ye olde love or leave it. How dare I want things done properly. I should
just shut the *** up and get the *** out.

Or, you could get retribution for being submissive to authority and
kill the next cop that pulls you over. Then, if you are still alive the
next day, you will find that you will be rewarded with that "free"
living you crave so much. Free meals. Free exercise time. Free showers
(don't drop the soap). For the rest of your life. ***, how cool is it
that fines levied on against speeders will pay for your very own cell?

Threats.... Always a good way to rule..... a third world police state
kleptocracy or a tyranny like China.

In some ways it beats the anarchy you seem to promote.

Sounds really good, doesn't it, Brent? Really, really good. What are
you waiting for?

Why do you have such a problem with liberty? Why are you so affraid of
your fellow citizens that you need them to be tracked, monitored,
controled, sheepdoged by men with guns and badges? Or is it that you don't
want real responsibilty? You prefer to look to a parental government to
tell you what you should do, how you should live, to protect you? Or is it
just laziness... some people appear to like being a dependent. Their
freedom, their liberty is a small price to pay for the need to not have
to worry about things. Or maybe you're on the other end of it all. Maybe
you get a perverse joy that comes with kicking people around, making
them beg and be submissive? Which are you CJ?


Because society needs controls, and someone has to be the controllers.
Obviously, you don't agree with following the rules, even though your
actions risk the safety of others. Now, if everyone thought the way
you do, we'd have total confusion. Every society in history has had
controls and enforcers. This is not the perfect dream world you would
have it be. While your driving may be perfect even without following
the rules, all it takes it someone else who is not so perfect, to
smear you and those you love all over the roadway.



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