Re: History and Science lesson, all in one
- From: Spike <jma@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:16:54 -0700
As I see it, you want to remove this bit of bad history because it
reminds people of slavery. Yet, it had a history before it became a
slavery issue, and that history has been overshadowed to the point of
disappearing.
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:56:56 -0400, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>Spike wrote:
>
>It isn't but lumping it in with those you mentioned isn't putting it in
>good company. I believe anyone should have the right to fly it, wear it
>etc. I just don't understand what drives people to want to do it. It
>is a symbol of a past struggle to allow the continuation of slavery. I
>fully understand how some people are offended by it. Especially, when
>it is flying on or near a government building or it is part of a state
>flag. It seems like some people can still justify the South's struggle
>to retain slavery but then say they are against owning slaves. These
>two positions are mutually exclusive.
Slavery comes in many forms. Most think of the black men and women
picking cotton. They forget that many of the early white settlers of
the colonies were sent here as indentured servants (Australia
experienced a very similar condition). That they had to work for an
individual for a specified period in order to earn their freedom. To
run away was subject to severe punishment. That while an indentured
servant, they were subject to the control of the person they were
indentured to. Also forgotten, are those white people who went to work
for mine owners, and right off the bat, they were in debt from which
they could never hope to escape, to the "company store". Once
indebted, heaven help the fool who ran away and was caught.
What action should be taken in such cases as these? Should any
reference on a state flag or other government entity to mining
ventures be removed?
Many years ago, a new man was assigned to my unit. A really great guy
except with reference to slavery. He was black, and his thoughts I
understood. However, he held the position that not one black person in
the US ever immigrated voluntarily. That every black person in this
country was descended from slaves who were brought here by force.
He further believed that every black person should be paid for what
their ancestors endured, and that a portion of the US should be set
aside as a "Black State". Where he acquired his beliefs, I have no
idea. But that long ago (1983) history was already being distorted in
some way.
>
>> All this "stuff" about changing the logos of states, their flags, and
>> renaming geographical locations, school teams, etc, is idiocy. It is
>> an attempt to bury history so that it will be forgotten. It steals the
>> heritage, good or bad, of the people. It falls in line with the push
>> to remove any and all, reference to a Christian God from public
>> places. Where does it stop? Shall we send in the curators to remove
>> such references from all historical documents? Physically cut the
>> words out of them?
>
>I'm not quite sure how flying a flag that a large number of citizens
>associate with advocating/justifying slavery equates to references to
>God in public places. I doubt God sports a Confederate flag in the back
>glass of his pickup truck. ;)
The California flag has a graphic of a bear... a bear which no longer
exists, because it was hunted to extinction. Many would consider that
a very bad thing. Suppose those PETA type people decided, as you have
about the stars and bars, that this graphic is offensive to those who
defend the rights of animals (and trees, owls, etc... and as we all
know, California is filled with such people). Should the bear then be
removed from the flag in order not to offend people? Where would it
end? There are people, citizens, who reside within our borders, who
find the US Flag objectionable because of the acts the US has
committed in the past; think Nagasaki, and religious groups who deem
respect for the flag to be "idol worship". And what if it was
something you liked/respected/etc? Perhaps you don't think such things
could happen. Well, who expected that Christian symbols would be
expelled from public places? Who in the south expected that the battle
flag would be banned from public places? Gay marriage approved?
Mandates for prisoners to have cable television, and other privileges
the average person can't afford?
>
>> Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. How then
>> may the people remember if every sign of such ills is stripped away
>> from view, and buried? When school text is re-written to reflect the
>> thought of today and represent it as the thought of the past?
>
>I'm not advocating removing it from our history books at all. It is a
>part of our history and should be studied. I just don't understand the
>need of some people to brandish this flag.
While you may not advocate removal, there are many others who do; as
well as the removal of many other things, and/or the
"re-interpretation" of historical events. Already, steps have been
taken to rewrite the history of WWII, among many other things, to say
that the US committed a vile and unnecessary act when the bombs were
dropped on Japan, and that that action was not needed to end the war;
that it was done solely out of spite for an "inferior race".
When I lived in Scotland I had the occasion to read one of the UK
history books about the American revolution. Essentially, there was
one paragraph relating how these traitors rebelled against the legal
and rightful rule of the King.... and an entire page about George
Washington and what a fantastic military leader he was. No mention was
made of the things GB had committed against the colonists.
>
>> Then, too, we have the push to make atonement to various groups
>> (blacks, Japanese, Eskimos, etc) for past transgressions. Bull. To go
>> back in history and make amends for what was then legal is insane.
>> It may not have been right morally, but it was quite legal, and it
>> took place. Hiding any visible signs, or making financial restitutions
>> does not change the fact that they took place.
>
>Reparations are not realistic and will never happen.
And yet they have been awarded... just not funded.
I think too many are too quick to do what is considered politically
correct in order not to offend others. In the process, they fail to
realize that in doing so, they actually offend another portion of
society, and that they erode the rights of one group over another.
Their intentions are good and grand, but they give little thought to
the big picture.
>> It's time this nation stood up, and while condemning such practices,
>> tell the ACLU that enough is enough. For both good and bad, this
>> nation has a past; a history and heritage which belongs to the people
>> who built it with sweat and blood. It may not be always pretty, but it
>> is dishonest to bury it as has been the line of thought in recent
>> decades.
>
>Anyone that bashes the ACLU will never see any opposition from me. ;)
We may not agree on the battle flag issue... well, actually, we do in
some ways... but here we seem to have reached a point of agreement.
Cheers!
Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address
.
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