Re: Solved Coolant Leak: Lower Intake Manifold Gasket



At the risk of sounding like I'm agreeing with the guy who called me "goofy"
I have to say, that in this particular case, I think stop-leak is a bad
idea. The intake manifold gaskets are just made of paper. I have replaced
two of them and they were in poor condition and likely to leak in several
places. I would expect the stop-leak to fail rather suddenly leaving you
with a bad coolant leak, possibly a lot worse that what you originally had.
Personally I would replace the gasket(s) as soon as possible and carry about
20 gallons of water in the meantime.

OTOH I used some other brand of stop leak to determine if a problem that I
had was a leaking head. That was over a year ago and so far it has held and
I have not yet had to replace the head gaskets (or worse). I only used
about 1/4 of a can. I tried using a whole can and it clogged my heater
core.


"Jim Warman" <mechanic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%MjLi.106282$Pd4.36345@xxxxxxxxxxx
You are still missing the point... these "major manufacturers" using some
form of stop leak are doing it for one reason only - and that is to ensure
that these things get past the warranty period before all hell breaks
loose.... Is there something hard to understand, here?

There are several ways to address any concern with a vehicle... how many
of
them are "right"?

For my part, I can either fix a vehicle in a manne that I am confortable
with, knowing that this is a permnanent type repair... or, I can save
someone a whole bunch of dollars with some cheapie repair - just so I can
fix it propely on my nickel....

The typical DIYer is prepared to accept something substandard from his own
efforts.... Since he is paying for my efforts, he is less likely to adopt
a
cavalier attitude towards my endeavours.... To add salt to the wound.... I
have, in the past, been ":treated" with concerns that were "solved" with
cooling system sealers.... I quote a repair cost and then get into it...
only to find that I have a "wild card" (unexpected stop leak) in the
system... This often hides unexpected costs and will make me the bad
guy....
no matter what I try to make of the situation....

To pretend that stop gap measures are "final fixes" is doing yourself a
great dis-service.... However, if you feel that this is what you deserve,
I
will not try to sway your decision.... I will, however, offer rebuttal
when
you try to convince others that these methods are true fixes.

If "mechanic in a can" worked, I'd be out of a job.... plain and
simple....

What is of note.... DIY efforts gone awry are too often blamed on a
consciencious technician that is charged with sorting out all manner or
poorly considered repair attempts. Once all the homeopathic remedies have
been tried, we are now supposed to repair these things for nearly free
(Jeez, the owner already has too much money in ineffective repairs) and we
are to rid the system of those things that we feel can affect the
integrity
of our own repairs - also for free....

You, sir, are allowed to advocate your particular assumption of
repair.....
I will advocate those things that years of experience have shown me to be
a
fix it right, fix it once kind of deal....

If you feel that driving from one breakdown to the next is what you
deserve - moe power to you....


"Explorer1994 4.0L" <jkimchi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1190518817.183879.240160@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sep 22, 9:33 pm, "Explorer1994 4.0L" <jkim...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 22, 7:42 pm, "Jim Warman" <mecha...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





Bars Leaks???? Are you serious???? Yes, it does seal leaks... just as
advertised.....

Did you know that, to Bars Leaks, your heater core "looks" like a
leak?
Pray
for a warm winter....

You have some of the ideas, but you haven't done enough thinking....

Do all of the major auto manufacturers put stop leak in their cooling
systems? Yes....... Why? Well, to keep them from leaking.... Is this
a
premanent solution? No.... The manufacturer adds stop leak to the
cooloing
system in an effort to make any cooling system leaks not be evident
until
after the warranty expires.... Additives are NOT a repair but are
merely a
stop gap measure.... You are welcome to them but please refrain from
considering yourself an expert....

In my nearly 40 years in this business, some of my most profitable
jobs
have
been the result of DIY efforts gone wrong.... If something is
leaking,
the
only reliable course of action is a proper repair.... In your case,
the
leak
hasn't stopped... it has been "postponed"....

FWIW, Bars Leaks has been around for many, many years... other
temporary
coolant leak "fixes" include smokeless tobacco, ground black pepper,
eggs,
and several other day to day products.... None of them are a lasting
repair
and many come with "baggage" that will usually be seen in increased
repair
costs when the product finally cannot deliver....

"Explorer1994 4.0L" <jkim...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1190500125.681911.312210@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

1994 FExplorer, 4.0L, Edmonton, AB:
- The Explorer was experiencing a small coolant leak. By 'small', I
mean it would mainly leak less than 1/4 cup full after shutting off
the engine. Inspecting under the car, I noticed the leak was
originating some where behind the fan, where the lower intake
manifold
would be.... Damn, like many Ford's of this variety, I suspected it
was the lower intake manifold gasket that was going on me.

- I took it to Koch Ford, a local Ford dealer in town, for a
coolant
pressure test since I didn't have the time to rip apart my engine
bay
in order to source the problem. After the pressure test, they
confirmed my initial hypothesis that the gasket was going.

Curious. I ask Koch Ford, for a price quote for the fix. Price:
Over
$1000, roughly six hours of labour time, and almost $250 in price
for
parts!!!! To take this decision, is not a rational division of
one's
financial resources.

Being somewhat educated-trained in the 'art' (not a science) of car
repair, especially when dealing with an SUV of this age and build
quality), I knew the fix. The one fix that comes in a bottle that
actualy works. The fix that even the US military used in their own
nuclear submarine to fully repair the sub's condenser system
(sourced
in academic history, click here:
http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=3739).

Remember the context. In my instance, the leak was minimal. I had
sourced the problem early. For larger coolant leaks, this solution
may
not apply. I keep my SUV very well maintained. So I qualify my
suggestion here with that point. If your Explorer should be more an
Exploder, I got no inherently rational solution for your coolant
leaks.

So I went to Canadian Tire, and picked up the Bar's Leak.
The Steps I Took:
(1) Took off my radiator cap.
(2) Using a turkey baster, pumped out a near equivalent amount (a
bit
more than the Bar's Leak bottle can hold) of coolant;
(3) Shook the bottle of Bar's
(4) Put a prayer in from all religious view points;
(5) Threw the contents of Bar's Leak into the radiator;
(6) Put the radiator cap back on.
(7) Turned the car on, and went for an approximately 25 minute
drive
(involving highway and city driving). This allows the chance for
the
thermostat to open and circulate the coolant.
(8) Bought a Tim Hortin's Double Double, and went home.
(9) Solved- Has not leaked since.
****(10) IMPORTANT- After I was convinced the leak was sealed, I
did
a
coolant change (not flushing with chemical flush. I just used water
and new coolant). I waited three days, drove the car in the
meantime,
checked for leaks. Satisfied the leak was corrected, I then
initiated
a coolant change. (Coolant changes are a joke, and the Lube shops
charge way to much for such a simple procedure. This message board
provides awesome advice on that front).

Bar's Leak does a wonderful job sealing 'minor' leaks. Major car
manufacturers use Bar's Leak in many of their production cars, and
the
product has been out since the 1940s. (Ford, GM, Saab, etc...)

Beware: Some have had horendous experiences with Bar's (eg.
clogging
the little hole for air release in the thermostat, or clogging
their
heater cores, and other variety of stories). It may have been due
to
leaving the Bar's Leak in the system far too long. Remember, seal
the
leak, and flush it out immediately. The company that produces this
stuff states that you can leave it in the system, for maintence.
IMO,
don't, although the US military did after pouring kilos of this
stuff
in the nuclear sub!!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let me start. Mr. Warren, I respect your opinion very highly when it
comes to Fords. Thanks for posting your opinions on a consistent
basis, since it's helped me understand certain issues related to my
SUV. On the other hand, please do not subject me to statements of ad
hominem fallacy. Please do not isolate my ridicule the messanger, but
listen to the message. Now, with that noted... let me get to the issue
over Bar's Leak.

Dr. Bob, another who has posted on the subject matter on this list has
stated his opinion on Bar's

Leak:http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer/browse_t..
..

Also, I evidence in the initial email chain, the fact that the US
military relied on the product for one of it's nuclear submarines.
Yes. albeit, comparing a Ford Explorder cooling system to a nuclear
submarine's condensation system is a bit far of a stretch. However,
the context that I was presented with, made me choose a proven
solution to seal minor coolant leaks (let me qualify, I state, not
from all leaks).

Second, your statement about it clogging heater cores is not correct
in the absolute sense. Please do not make blanket coverage statements
about an issue Ive only provided less than a page description to. I
used Bar's Leak to correct a specific situation. It worked. To make
prophetic statements, that the 'solution' is a patch job is simply
baseless, since your foundational claim is based on my initial email.
Also, you understand fully that major car manufacturers have and do
rely on Bar's Leak at the point of manufacture, as they do in
instances that you stated in your previous email.

The question is: Will Bar's Leak clog my heater core?

http://www.barsproducts.com/bars_faq.htm#common

The manufacturer of Bar's Leak states:

[5. Will Bar's Leaks plug my heater core?

No, the tiny particles will pass through a 24-gauge mesh screen which
is the spec for the BIG 3 car/truck manufacturers. They say that any
product installed in the cooling system must pass through this
screen.

Bar's Leaks is the only stop leak to pass this test and to be approved
by the vehicle manufacturers. Note: If using Bar's Leaks to stop
heater core leaks, make sure you turn your heater control to HOT. Some
vehicles have a valve that controls coolant flow through the core.]

Or shall we take the manufacturers of Bar's Leak, a company that's
been around since 1947 and relied upon by the US military, to court
for false advertising and fraud?

You must be an import American living near the oil sands of Fort
McMurray, Canada. You seem to be quite drunk with power with all these
years of usenet group influence. Provide yourself the 'divine right of
king expert,' then... and ridicule me into the realms of DYI'ers. Fact
is, Don't make car maintenance and repair into something complex with
technical jargon that costs to access. The langauge of a mechanic is
the langauge of a business man craving for your hard earned money.

Don't slam DIY'ers, and make it seem one requires a College level
education to repair a vehicle. Just as you, a DIY can do just a well,
since reading 100 books never weighed more than real world
experience.

"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Lord Acton.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LIST OF SOME OF THE MAJOR CAR MANUFACTURERS WHO USE BAR"S LEAK
Allis Chalmers (AGCO)
AM General (Hummer, etc.)
Carrier Transicold
Caterpillar (Canada and USA)
Cloverland (engine rebuilder)
Daimler-Chrysler (US, Canada, and International)
Engine Rebuilders (Canada)
Ford Motor Company (US, Canada, and International)
General Motors Corp. (US, Canada, and International)
Gopher Motors (engine rebuilder)
Isuzu (international)
Jaguar (international)
Komatsu (heavy duty)
Marshall (engine rebuilder)
Mitsubishi (international)
Navistar (International Harvester)
RB&W Logistics (industrial)
Subaru (international)
SOURCE: http://www.quasimotors.com/about_bar.htm





.



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