Re: Another $17.4 Billion WASTED

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:43:34 -0500, edward ohare
<edward_ohare@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 12 Jan 2009 14:28:31 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dave Head <rally2xs@xxxxxxx> wrote in
news:vfemm4lra7t13dnmo7qtht6hmp56numamn@xxxxxxx:

No the government was dumb to use CAFE to try to force them to limit
supply of large cars. What the government should have done was to
limit the public's demand for large cars and trucks... by making the
gas expensive.

and you recently saw the results of making gas more expensive;
many businesses going under,economy greatly affected.
Taxation never improves the economy.


So tax rates should be zero?

Yes. Its the nature of income taxes. People find ways around it, or they
drag down industry so there's less of it and therefore less to tax, and... you
get less revenue that way.

Get rid of income taxes completely. That especially includes corporate income
taxes.


This is the fallacy if Reagonomics. That whatever tax rates are now,
they are too high. That lowering tax rates is good for business.

It is.

Lowering tax rates only helps business **if** current tax rates are
restricting business.

They _always_ do that.

If tax rates are high enough to reduce the incentive to earn
additional income, then that is restricting business. If tax rates
are comparatively to high, that is versus what rates are in other
countries,

Taxation **can** improve the economy. It depends on what you do with
the money. For example, if using tax money you build or provide the
opportunity to build a transportation system, then it is possible the
economy will improve. As an example, when the canal system was built,
farmers the western part of the US (today's midwest) were then able to
sell more of their products and at higher prices because they could
get their products to consumers.

If you spend tax money blowing up stuff in Iraq for allegedly noble
causes (but clearly not practical reasons) you will not improve the
economy. You have spent tax money for no economic gain.

But, if you spend your tax money, as the Brits did, on the Royal Navy
and use the RN to restrict the activities of your economic
competitors, then the taxes spent on that may improve your economy.
It worked for the Brits for a long time.



The government shouldn't have done anything about limiting the
public's demand for this or that. It's not the role of government to
interfere in a free country.

It -is- a government role to SET STANDARDS.(also to provide leadership.)
That is all CAFE is,a standard to be met.


Standards, required product information, and market manipulation are
not the same things. Standards are appropriate when the consumer
doesn't have reasonable means to determine the characteristics,
quality, or performance of a product.

A consumer cannot look at a shirt and reasonably determine the flame
resistance of the fabric. A standard for that and certification the
standard is met is an approriate role for government.

A consumer cannot look at a car and make a reasonable determination of
its gas mileage. So its appropriate for the government to require
information in this type of situation.

But CAFE goes beyond either of these things. Its problem is it
requires manufacturers to someone manipulate consumers to buy more
economical vehicles when the consumers in fact may not be interested
in more economical vehicles. Its a failed attempt at market
manipulation. It requires manufacturers to do things for which most
of the things needed to do it effectively are outside their control.

Build it and they will come does not apply.

It just had a big gaping loophole for SUV/light trucks,because of their
commercial uses.


And people bought SUVs and mini vans because they wanted 6, 7, and 9
passenger vehicles and stricter CAFE standards for cars eliminated
cars with that type of passenger capacity.



I tend to agree with that, but our dependence of foreign oil is a
National security issue, right? So, the government is supposed to
look out for the National security, so what should the government do
about it, then?

Drill ANWR and the coastal deposits.

Oil in restricted coastal areas is about 17 billion barrels.. about 30
months consumption at current rates... not a solution.

Nobody knows how much oil is there until it is drilled. Nobody expected all
that much oil out of Alaska, either, but we recently pumped our 15 billionth
barrel out of there.



Mine shale for oil.

Shale oil is more expensive than imported oil even at $140 a barrel.
Something else to subsidize? Didn't we learn that doesn't work with
ethanol?

That's always the claim. However, that doesn't mean that someone won't come up
with a method for getting the oil out that works and is economical. The key is
to explore and experiment.

Develop that algae for making bio-oil.
Produce DOMESTIC petro sources.

Not without much higher priced imported oil.

How about _no_ imported oil.... eventually...

Build more nuclear power plants,get Yucca Mtn on line.

OK on nukes.

.

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