Re: OT - RFID chips in passports next year

Bernd Felsche <bernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:1ata33xsof.ln2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

> Jim Yanik <jyanik@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>>"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Jim Yanik wrote:
>
>>>> But there's no difference between an ALTERED official document and
>>>> a PP with a dead embedded RFID chip.
>>>
>>> Certainly there is. RFID chips, like all other chips, can and do
>>> fail on their own.
>
>>Rarely enough to be indication of tampering.
>
> So who's been tampering with my computer?
>
> All chips fail; eventually.
>
>>> Drivers licenses and passports do not self-alter.
>>>
>>>> For all you know,the PP might have embedded indicators to show that
>>>> the RFID chip was intentionally destroyed.
>>>
>>> Uh...sure. Now who's wearing the tinfoil hat, bub?
>
>>Well,if you(not me) believe the gov't is going to secretly
>>long-range-scan
>
> Gevernment? Nobody's worried about a government doing something
> "useful" with the data.
>
>>and capture your PP data for some dastardly plan,then it's certainly
>>no great stretch to believe that such anti-tamper telltales would be
>>included in the PP.
>>(unless you're so far from reality....)
>
>>>> Besides,putting it in a microwave oven and heating it may alter the
>>>> dyes,or other security features.It might even MELT part of it.
>>>
>>> Nobody said anything about heating it. 4 seconds in a microwave
>>> won't heat anything -- it'll just zap the chip, is all.
>
>>Are you sure??? 2.5Ghz might be(most likely!) FAR outside of the chips
>>bandwidth,thus attenuating the signal to negligible levels(creating
>>HEAT in the process).And 4 sec of 1KW MW energy is enough to cause
>>changes in dyes or other telltales.
>
> Not unless the dyes are *sensitive* to such radiation... which means
> that you shouldn't be walking anywhere near automatic doors because
> that could be mistaken for "tampering".

Gads;the RF levels of a door opener are much lower than any oven.
You folks have NO idea,no clue.
>
>>Of course,you could test this by putting an ordinary logic IC in your
>>MW for 4 sec,then test it for functionality.(chances are good that,in
>>*4 sec*,the MW will not even begin generating microwaves. Magnetrons
>>do not come on instantly.)
>
> You seem to have latched onto the microwave oven as a chip killer.

No,someone here suggested it.

> First; the RFID chip has an antenna which is how the device is
> powered; by being "illuminated" with radiation of suitable strength
> and frequency. The required power is in the microwatt range.

Yes,and it follows the inverse square law.
AND for RFID chips to return a signal over any distance,they have to be
POWERED,not the RF-energized type.

> Exposing the antenna to radiation of 1000 million times that amount
> is unlikely to do it a lot of good.

Not if the FREQ is out of the antenna's range.
Then you get substantial attenuation.
You ought to pick up an ARRL Handbook and read it.

>
>>Besides,who carries their passport around -with them- if IN the US?
>
> Foreigners.

As if I care about them.They probably should be tracked anyways.
And there's STILL nothing stoppping them from using a foil shield;no RF
interrogation,no readout.

>
>>AFAIK,one uses a passport when crossing the US BORDER.
>>Worrying about being scanned and /or tracked is idiotic(and paranoid).
>>Especially since they will not be able to scan them without your
>>consent and knowledge.
>
> Imagining that the passport _cannot_ be scanned otherwise is a
> mistake. Somebody in the queue behind you at the airport may be
> carrying a passive receiver that records the "access code"
> equivalent transmitted to "enable" the RFID in the passport.

There's no "access code";it's just the RF pulse that triggers the return
response.(and supplies the power for the RFID chip,-unless- the device has
it's own battery,like the Florida SunPass)

>
> Your passport can then subsequently be enabled by whoever is in
> possession of that recording.

Not if they can't get close enough to interrogate it,thru the shielding
wallet it comes with.And WHO is going to be carrying the equipment
necessary to interrogate them,in an airport?(with all that security)

You really are something.Out of touch with REALITY.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
.

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