Re: At power on tube filaments light up more than normal for a sec

flipper wrote:

Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Oh, yes! Nice to see a
positive result. Particularly because the argument is
similar to the heater itself, in that it must have two
components of different properties that eventually
achieve
equilibrium.

I take it you mean that to be a humorous 'tubie' version
of the Mad
Hatter or something.

Dialectics again. Find out or ignore, I don't mind which.

I know what a dialectic is

:-)

but if you meant for the above to mean
something then you should say so.

Don't be daft. How would I do that? Should I write "this
means something" after everything I write? To anyone
aquainted with the dialectic, my meaning is obvious,
although my sense of humour may appear shallow. It was a
wink to the knowledgeable. You may ignore it, as I
suggested.

That
would make it just an artifact of their particular
construction
technique.

Syntax, please!

Most people don't like to have their sins taxed.

The sentence. on the other hand, is fine.

The "just" is of questionable value with respect to
meaning,
but I won't dwell on it.

In that context 'just' means "no more than" and that is
precisely what
was meant.

OK. In which case the logic is at fault.

If the syntax is good, then your logic is clearly at
fault.

No, the logic is perfectly fine.

No it isn't, not by a very long way.

Just because some flash accidentally

I already dealt with the 'accidentally' misconception so
why do you
repeat it?

does not mean that
some, many, or most do not flash on purpose.

You are working 'backwards'. You see a 'flash' and presume
there must
be some ' grand purpose' to it.

Rubbish. It is not an assumption, but a deduction, and I
accept it may be false. But you are wriggling. The point I
made here is that just because some flash by accident does
not mean that others do not flash on purpose. That is your
logical error, and it is very obvious. I am saying I believe
it is often deliberate. It is you who are so certain, on the
basis of scant evidence. So much so that you think you can
take the piss out of anyone who disagrees. Foolish
arrogance, I'm afraid.

The very point I made was there is no 'grand purpose' to
the 'flash;,
That it's simply an artifact of some other purpose, just
as there is
no 'grand purpose' to making the tops of miniature tubes
'shiny'. It's
simply an artifact of the gettering.

There you go again. No-one is saying the purpose is grand.

I contend that most of our experiences suggest that mostly
it happens on purpose.

All evidence suggests exactly the opposite because the
'flash vs 'non
flash' observations do not meet the terms of the
hypothesis. I.E. most
controlled warmup heaters do *not* flash wile various non
controlled
heaters *do*.

Eh? I haven't said the purpose is "controlled warmup". That
was a tentative suggestion by Patrick. You have subsequently
set it up as an aunt sally. I have said that flashing is too
quick to serve that purpose. I have suggested other possible
and plausible purposes related to reliability. But I don't
need to know the purpose to contend that flashing as a
phenomenon that has characteristics that may reasonably
associated with purpose. Purpose appears to me a more sound
assumption than no purpose.

I don't see a range of flashing, resulting randomly or
normally from a range of accidents, but rather I see some
valves that flash very obviously, and most that don't
flash
at all. That's why flashing is remarkable.

Now your just being silly. No one said it was 'random' or
'intermittent'.

Intermittent is presumably another deliberate red herring.

No, you didn't say it was random. I am saying that it does
not appear to be random or normal. I hoped you might see the
point I am making, in that one might expect accidental
things to be randomly or normally distributed. In either
case one might expect a range of flashing...as in some flash
a bit, some a lot, and many in between.

It could be that there are several accepted and adopted
methods of construction, one of which accidentally results
in flashing,

It's not an 'accident'.

Stop it. My meaning is clear. I mean that in that case it
would have no purpose. Not on purpose, accidental...see the
link?

You have been saying that flashing has no purpose,
vociferously despite lack of evidence. Are you now saying it
is has purpose?

but that seems less likely to be true than the
assumption that it is a deliberate feature, with a
purpose.

Nonsense.

Eh? Now what's nonsense? Is it nonsense that it seems less
likely to me?

The only reason it seems 'likely' to you is, for some
unknown reason,
you attach mystical significance to a flash of light.

Where did that come from? The significance I attach only
appears mystical to you because you have failed to
understand a word I have written about it.

Controlling warm-up time over several seconds is not the
purpose, because the flash is too brief to make enough
difference. One purpose could be to reduce the mechanical
and thermal shock to the heater/cathode insulation,
considering that is a more likely source of failure than
heater fracture. Or it could be that the combination of
physical constraint to movement resulting from a jacket of
insulation, and rapid thermal expansion, is much more
likely
to fracture the heater than either of those circumstances
alone. Leaving a loose length that takes the thermal shock
without the physical constraint would then reduce the risk
of heater fracture.

Since you're going to dream up things why not speculate
it's there to
scare Martians?

Here's a radical thought. How about doing some research
and *looking*
at one like I did?

I doubt there are any Martians, and don't believe you have
looked at one.

Anyway, I don't buy the accident argument so far. I know
that some afficianados regard flashing as a desirable
quality. They may be daft, but I'm not convinced they're
completely stupid.

Same folks that use magic pebbles, no doubt.

Absolutely not. There used to be some very knowledgeable
engineers here who knew their valves, unlike the clueless
technicians who have recently congregated.

Ian


.

Relevant Pages

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