Re: Lies and Whimpers

Iain Churches wrote:
The very idea that Andre should be "banned" had not even entered
my head. It is too ridiculous for words:-)

It's ridiculous in the sense that it's impossible to ban anyone
from an open newsgroup. But is it really such a ridiculous idea?
I mean, Andre has committed the crime of libel. Don't you think
there should be some consequences for that? I mean, really, is
it so important to you to remain neutral that you find it impos-
sible to come out and say, "Gee, libel is illegal?"

Here's the thing about a newsgroup, Iain. You can't control it.
You can try to influence people, and sometimes (often) in doing
so you spark a heated debate. It's called a flame war, and it's
a tradition as old as the usenet.

What you're basically saying here is that in the interest of
keeping the peace, we should all agree to behave ourselves. I
got started on the usenet back in 1985, when I was twenty-two
years old. I've seen a lot since them. I can tell you for a
fact that what you're proposing just won't happen.

There's a geek saying, "The internet routes around damage."
What it means is that the internet is free and will find ways
to compensate for external attempts to censor it. What you are
asking is for people not to speak their minds. Whether or not
you like it, Andre and I have things to say about one another.
I'm not saying I approve of what Andre has to say. But your
solution, IMHO, is not in keeping with the spirit of the usenet
as it embodies the free principles of the internet.

I would even go so far as to say that your tendency to keep your
thoughts to yourself (surely, in your heart of hearts, you are
not neutral when it comes to Andre and me) is contrary to that
spirit, and, frankly, to me just a bit unnerving.

The real problem with this newsgroup, in my opinion, is that it
failed to route around damage. The damage is not the MagneQuest
flame war. It is the combination of Andre's dishonesty and
Patrick Turner's turgid dominance of the technical agenda here.
It's Phil Allison's rudeness and the rec.audio.opinion crowd's
off-topic bickering. And so on.

If you think about it, what really happened is the newsgroup
itself became damage and the internet routed around the newsgroup.
So now we have many loosely moderated, Web-based message boards
that have proved to be much more productive and friendly to their
users than rec.audio.tubes. And that's what's killed this group.
Good people have no reason to stick around.

I've noticed that a lot of people who were very active on the
newsgroups and bulletin boards don't post that often anymore.
I think to a large extent, when you've been heavily involved in
that scene for many years, at some point you realize you've
said just about everything you have to say. These people,
myself included, still lurk, but they only come out occasionally,
to comment on a subject that may be of particular interest to
them. I can't see myself spending a large portion of my days
posting on rec.audio.tubes the way I used to. I've been doing
that the past week or so, and it's been very disruptive.

I've posted five messages on the Tube DIY Asylum this year...

You've asked me to "return" to the group. I never "leave" or
"return". I just lurk. The thing is, even without all of
the fuss that's directed at me personally, the group is in
a sad state of decline. But, when you consider how much abuse
I put up with here (and that includes John's recent trolls),
why in the world would I want to invest my energy here?

I ask myself, if I were looking for a job or a girlfriend,
would I want my prospective employer or mate to know I was a
participant in this insanity? LOL!

I would potentially be interested in joining a private group,
but I don't really see how such a group could compete with
all the other established open Web forums. Would Andre be
invited to join this new forum? Would I?

The newgroup simply will be what it will be, Iain. Your
sentiment is admirable, but you're neither the first nor the
last to step up to the plate in the misguided belief that you
can "fix" this place. There is nothing to fix. The group
defines its own existence.

-Henry


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Relevant Pages

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