Re: Radio Designers Handbook

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:08:46 GMT, Patrick Turner
<info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



Andre Jute wrote:

On Sep 24, 6:39 am, M...@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:17:56 -0700, Andre Jute <fiul...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



On Sep 23, 3:50 pm, M...@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 09:24:22 -0700, Andre Jute <fiul...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Sep 22, 6:51 pm, M...@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:04:36 -0700, Andre Jute <fiul...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Engineer <junk2...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

b) The Fourth Edition of 1953. Don't for a moment think that because
we speak glibly of the RDH4, we refer to this edition. We don't. There
were "revised reprints with addenda" every three years of so over the
period 1954-1967. So the one you want, with all the good references in
the addenda, is the 1967 edition. This is very common, because it was
printed in Australia, UK and by RCA in America. The current Newnes
edition is a fasimile of the 1967 RCA edition (I have the RCA edition
as well as the Newnes one and have compared them closely: they are
identical).

"Please" and "thank you" might be nice instead of this peremptory
manner:

Source for this information? Links?

But I'll answer you anyway, since I want to say something about
copyright further on.

Source for this information?

Obverse of the title page of the several editons I own; anyone who's
ever opened a book knows to look there. Other personal and
professional knowledge as an author and a publisher, and as a
reprographer. Communications from Joenetters and RAT's.

Links?
Google has all the links. Ask politely and she will give them to you.

-- IIRC, there is or was reprint by Newnes (sp?) - is this so? (BTW,
my father was a printer with the company Newnes & Pearson in the UK,
circa 1950 - I presume the same one.)

Contact details and a review by me for Glass Audio is here:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/JUTE%20ON%20AMPS%20RDH.html

-- Are there any Internet downloads? If so, where?

Several. But possession is copyright theft.

- Does it violate copyright law? No. The copyright is 1953 and
copyright in Canada lasts for 50 years. That was up in 2003.

If you really work for Disney, Mr <M...@xxxxxxxxxx>, I suggest you keep
dead stumm at work about your ignorance, or your superior will
rusticate your slack arse in a minute for being a cuckoo in the nest.
If you can't work out what the previous sentence means, you don't work
for Disney and it doesn't matter that you're ignorant on copyright
law.

Now let's illuminate your ignorance:

- Does it violate copyright law? No. The copyright is 1953 and
copyright in Canada lasts for 50 years. That was up in 2003.

Yes, any unlicensed copy of the RDH4, by whatever means made, and
however presented, violates copyright law. You see, unlike your
ignorant statement, in Canada copyright is not for 50 years from
publication but from 50 years after the death of the author, or the
last author in the case of a book with multiple authorship. I wish you
luck with proving in the courts that every author of a multiple
authorship book like the RDH4 is dead and that fifty years have
elapsed since that death.

Then the court throws you in jail anyway as a thief, because you're
ignorant of another facet of copyright law. D'y'see, the relevant
edition is not 1953 but the last revised edition, in which the
revisions automatically renew the copyright of material included from
the prior edition. So the reckoning of the 50 years minimum term (if
all the authors were dead at the publication of the last revised
edition) starts in 1967. 1967+50 is 2017. Oops! In copyright until at
least 2017.

So, in 2017 at the earliest you can start searching for the obituary
of the last writer who added to the addenda, who might have been a
college kid in 1967.

You haven't got a hope in hell, pal; it would be cheaper to pay a
royalty to the present rights holders rather than to search.

HTH.

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain

PS: Go to the Canadian Copyright Board to inform yourself:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_gd_protect-e.html#11

Here are some relevant extracts from links found on that site:

General rule
The general rule is that copyright lasts for the life of the author,
the remainder of the calendar year in which the author dies, and for
50 years following the end of the calendar year.

Joint authorship
In the case of a work which has more than one author, the term will be
measured using the life of the author who dies last and 50 years
following the end of that calendar year.

I own an original red 1953 copy and this is what year I was refering
to. Those cloned copies of the 1967 are likely not even legal. I was
referring to links of the '67 edition. On USENET, some of us do not
use our real information...

In that case I am sorry I was sharp on you; wrong thread to enter with
a monicker that suggests you work in the intellectual property biz!

I have a connection to Newnes through their mother company, Heinemann,
whose literary arm Secker & Warburg were once my publishers of record.
I suppose I could ask them who they bought the RDH4 copyright from
(and they will graciously tell me to mind my own business) but I
imagine it was from Wireless in Australia. The Newnes reprint is
clearly marked <c> Reed Educational and Professional Publishing Ltd
1997. That leaves the position in regard to the 1953 edition and even
the earlier editions precisely as I described it: any wannabe public
domain ripoff merchant has to prove all the authors are dead and 50
years have elapsed since the death of the last one alive. Meanwhile
Reed owns the copyright and should be applauded for reprinting such a
valuable book for such a small niche market, and supported by tubies,
not conspired against with plans to steal their copyright property.

Andre Jute

Is there enough added material to justify buying one of the later
editions? I have seen some 1999 editions. Is this the latest?

Now that's a good question. I don't know. Patrick said the other day
that trying to find the valuable references that were added in later
editions, many, many pages of them, is a PITA, but that is nothing to
do with the RDH, but with libraries destroying material, or just
losing it. The other thing is that here and there inside the book it
appears as if later sections were added (this is in the 1997 Newnes
edition, but anyone with the 1967 edition from anywhere will also have
these additions). Again, without comparing an actual 1953 edtion side
by side with the 1967 edition, we just don't know enough to answer
your question. Back when the Newnes edition came out, I took the view
that it was cheap enough to buy just for the wipe-clean cover, even if
you already had the blue (or red) 1967 edition, which was no doubt
showing signs of wear. If you have to pay a netshark 150 bucks plus
postage for the Newnes eiditon, you probably want to be sure first
that the extra information is worth the money. (If you don't have an
RDH at all, as the OP does not, the 150 bucks is actually a very good
price for so much authoritative information as is in the RDH. See my
Glass Audio review at
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/JUTE%20ON%20AMPS%20RDH.html )

Are you still reading this thread, Patrick?

I am still keeping half an awake eye on this thread.

I have a green copy, 4th impression of the 4th Edition of 1955,
and a red copy which is the 5th impression ditto.
The red copy is 10mm thicker than the green copy, and has more in it at
the back.

If one turns to any page about 1/2 way through either, the same page of
text appears.

Seems to me they just added bits at tbe end in later copies,
rather than re-write whole sections to include "late developments in
applied tube use"

The books were written to spur tube useage in consumer electronics.

There is SFA about television which had become the most dominant and
complex
bit of electronics in anyone's home by 1960.

The extremely rapid development of electronics due to TV meant RCA and
other tube makers
moved to making record profits and they didn't need to produce books on
it, and books written would have
been out of date by the time they were published.
TV set construction was beyond most hobbyist ability.
When solid state came along bigtime by 1960, tube craft was stuffed, and
dumper bins filled
with junk for the scrap metal merchant.
Then corporations became greedy about their "secret knowledge" and bean
counters
went in hard, and no more really great and all encompassing books
resulted.
Instead of 3 ways of doing something electronic, there were suddenly
333,
and lotsa BS about each way, and then came 20,000 types of small signal
bjts....
followed by incomprehensible ics. Methodology could not be expressed
adequately in a book.

The Magazine 'Wireless World' was a truly great magazine to allow to
understand the
latest circuitry of the early time for radio, audio, tv, and 1,001 other
applications.
What wasn't in that magazine may not have been much worth knowing.
I suggest anyone wanting to understand tubes go visit a library where a
full
set of Wireless World magazines might be kept, from when they began in
1911 up till 1960,
after which anything with vacuum tubes for audio or consumer electronics
is not mentioned seriously at all.

Searching Google under 'Wireless World history' brought up delightfully
long distracting reads such as at
http://hjem.get2net.dk/helthansen/ww.htm

There is a pile of stuff to understand, but it isn't difficult because
its all applied basic principles.

Radio got most ppl's attention for 1/2 the 20th century, and audio
was a small part of it, but became the focus for the obsessives who
wanted hi-fi.
After 1950, the hi-fi problems were about solved for the obsessives with
triodes and NFB and
the LP and FM radio. Tapes distracted for awhile, and I don't have a
clue how to make a tape recorder.
And I can't make a CD player either.

Anyway, there is no shortage of things to read so that your dying words
can be
"I had a misspent old age"... a time when you should have been of more
generous service to those needing it,
rather than selfishly focusing on a useless hobby that is greenhouse
negative.

But luckily, the world doesn't need nor want the sometimes useful
advices of a brgade of babbling old bastards
interfering with the affairs of the young, so no need to feel guilty if
you
find all your days are spent worrying how your triodes are relating to
capacitors and resistors,
and not worrying about the grand kiddies learning progress, where by age
14, they have become
quite allergic to books, and older people.

Once the oldies were keepers of the knowledge, and respected for it.

Oldies have no knowledge worth knowing, if you read blogs by ppl under
25.......

Go to where the action is on any Usernet group where young folks gather
to discuss things in
an abrupt series of ill-written one liners. They hate reading more than
3 sentences,
especially if the content in each is related.

But, despite their illiteracy, the young manage well without the elders,
happy with MP3,
and not a vacuum tube in sight.....
They learnt early to engage technology by pressing keys to gradually
find out what worked and what didn't,
and without reading manuals, which ceased to come with anything they
bought.
Electronics has become totally incomprehensible, and a lifetime is
needed just to
draw the schematic of a PC and another lifetime to understand it in
detail.
So now ppl don't worry at all about details because there are just far
too many of them.
Young folks do their whole lives by the trial and error method, and it
explains
why its so awkward to tell them they could do it differently if you are
an older person
well booked up. They don't seem used to being told.....

For the Oldies, used to knowing details, and thus controlling outcomes,
the old analog world still allows them
to consider every MINUTE DETAIL, of say a Williamson amplifier. Or an AM
FM radio using tubes.
Old Books and magazines are a big help to the man in search of details
and fomulas and basics about how the simple
analog things work, but still you do need to be bright enough, and have
time, and build things to findoutabout.

Just because you posess a find lot of books, it doen't mean you
understand anything very much.
The measure of understanding is in the doing of things, not sitting
around cogitating uselessly.

Meanwhile, there exists a flood of boring bickering BS artists who post
crap all day at usernet groups,
and r.a.t is no exception, and you'd think such elders could use their
time better.

They don't seem to want to make anything.

Like most things, RDH4 isn't perfect, but much can be learnt from it if
applied
properly. I have a collection of books, and from all I have learnt.
If I didn't want to make things, I wouldn't have collected the books.

So, make things, and you'll need books.
Forgive a book when no answer to a question is to be found.
Get another, maybe the answer is in that one.

I must away to my shed to do more...

Patrick Turner.
The way my retired military computer (tubes and digital) mentors
explained it to me is that if something is being used for educational
purposes, the copyright can practically be ignored until it becomes
necessary for job or business purposes. I can see the logic in that
since eventually an educated tech/engineer will be using commercial
parts and test equipment in his duties. So I personally, even though I
own the RDH 4th edition, still follow the ideals of my elders.
As far a spewing horse hockey all over the Internet and wasting
time chasing the pirate marauders "stealing" all of this half century
old out of date - data books, I see no point in it as most of these
"thieves" are just trying to learn the craft instead of profiteering
on it. Mr. Jute, I suggest you just allow this angry thread to die and
pursue some other form of marauding the world by your self appointed
policing practices - no one like a "snitch" - even one that may be an
engineer...let God deal with the transgressors. May I suggest maybe
chasing Osama Bin Laden! Then you will be $25 million richer and not
find yourself being spit upon by your own USENET peers. And not be
"snitching" on student "stealers"...a simple disabled vet and student
of old technology...
.

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