Re: Distortion in tube amps, Re: Thanks to Andre Jute


Patrick Turner wrote:
> >

I take it this is from Mickey McMickey?
> > I guess you aren't going to answer the contradictions in the previous post,
> > like how can tubes be ultralinear and have a signature sound?

No, Mickey McMickey, I'm not about to answer abrasive questions
snarled out by a fool who thinks an ultralinear amp and an ultrafi amp
are the same thing. "Ultralinear" is a push pull topology with a tapped
output transformer, not a description of the sound quality produced. If
Patrick wants to be kinder to snappish little vultures, that's his
business:

> Not many people who dissmiss tubes want to answer this question.
>
> But first we have to define ultralinear, and I would
> place that as being measured distortions at 0.02% at normal levels,
> being 1/2 a watt into peakers of average modern type, 90dB/W/M,
> to get a loud 87 dB SPL, or 90 dB for both channels.
>
> 0.02% is a level of artifacts that is 1 / 5,000 of the signal,
> or if 1/2 a watt = 2Vrms into 8 ohms, Dn = 0.4 mV,
> and I ask if this could be heard if played on a speaker if the rest of the
> undistorted program was not present?
> When measuring equipment it is not unusual to find 0.4mV or more of noise
> in the output, and unless one clamps one's head against a speaker,
> you don't hear it.
>
> I would say that 0.1% Dn would be difficult to hear.
>
> So what does the solid state brigade achieve with routine measurements of
> 0.002%
> and at powers often 5 times that of tubes?
>
> Not very much it would seem.
>
> But still we hear music differently from a class A tube amp.
> Good amplifiers go back a long way, to before Williamson
> designed in 1947, where 0.1% was routine at 16 watts, and 0.02%
> was the Dn level at 0.5 watts, although in 1947, speakers usually
> made much more volume per watt, and in fact, it was the speaker distortion
> that was the main distortion mechanism, since speaker distortion rises
> with speaker sensitivity unless you are using well designed horns.
>
>
> So if tube amps that are 60 years old and if the ones made now
> also measure about as well or better, and have perhaps more power
> because we may use a quad of KT90 in triode instead of a lousy
> pair of KT66, then why does the music sound different through tubes
> compared to SS amps if the measurements
> don't indicate that we should hear any difference?
>
> Its a very good question that nobody wants to answer without
> the distractional arguments about tubes vs SS, and eternally condemning
> any amp with a single solitary triode as its output device, without
> taking into account the nature of SET distortions, and the variety
> of SET amps now available on the market, and despite the
> arguments against their "legimate" existance.
>
>
> It is mainstay belief amoung tube gear buyers and consumers that the fidelity
> of audio
> they listen to has at least not been improved by the invention of solid state.
>
> Convenience and cost savings may have occurred, especially if you consider
> today's HT emphasis, where everyone is supposed to have
> 5 amps where one was enough for watching a movie at home on TV.
> But one I have here to service, a huge heavy Sherwood black box
> hasn't proved to be so robust, and not so cheap to fix.
>
> Many would say that any slight loss of sound quality due to SS amps for HT is
> quite OK because most
> movie sound tracks are so damn processed and mauled during production
> that tubes won't fix the problem.
>
> Its so very easy to understand why some people, the minority,
> will continue to enjoy their glowing bottles.
>
> Patrick Turner.

.

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