Re: best radio tube guitar amp circuit?

In article <439C5C89.AF3414D6@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>GregS wrote:
>
>> In article <4396C60D.4D395602@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Pooh Bear
> <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Andy Cowley wrote:
>> >
>> >> GregS wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article <dn4rcg$jbl$3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, szekeres@xxxxxxxx
>> > (GregS) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>In article <Zsllf.49086$sg5.40080@dukeread12>, pfarrell@xxxxxxxxxx
> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~ wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>In article <1133831449.360707.276490@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
>> >> >>>> tombrown@xxxxxxx writes:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>accomplish? Assume we're talking about guitarists who want
> distortion,
>> >> >>>>>not hifi.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Errr???? I don't follow...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Guitar amps are supposed to have distortion.
>> >> >>>That is what makes an electric guitar sound right.
>> >> >>>Not counting heavy metal/Hendix, you have to
>> >> >>>have distortion.
>> >> >>>Especially for blues or jazz.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>HiFi and guitar amps have next to nothing in common.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>From a purist standpoint, a simple guitar amp has little distortion.
>> >> >
>> >> >>Much of the guitar sound also develps from the speaker itself.
>> >> >>Its very much part of the systems sound. You don't need amplifier
>> > distortion,
>> >> >>but its widely used. I think more distortion is used or needed at low
>> >> >>volumes, or at least thats what I observe. Much of the Hendrix sounds
>> >> >>are much more harmonically balanced and little distortion
>> >> >>compared to much of what you hear today. The whole darn mix
>> >> >>is distorted, its makes little sense.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I remember my friends first guitar amp, a amplifier from Olson
> Electronics,
>> > or
>> >> > maybe somewhere else. Something like a 20-30 watt PP tube HiFi
>> >> > amplifier, over top either one or two speakers down below. This was back
> in
>> >> > high school, in the mid 60's. No special guitar circuitry. Sounded like
> a
>> > typical
>> >> > guitar back then to me, of course they might have been distorting it at
> max
>> > volume.
>> >> > Of course, used it for vocals also. Everybody played vocals through the
>> > guitar amps.
>> >> >
>> >> > greg
>> >> 8-10% THD per pre-amp stage, tiny o/p transformer. 3dB points likely >100
> Hz
>> > and <8kHz.
>> >> Not really what the audiophools want. Try putting a Fender or Marshall on
> a
>> > distortion
>> >> analyser. The distortion, not clipping, is what 'thickens' the tone up for
> a
>> > bluesy
>> >> sound. A good guitar sounds like crap through a real hi-fi amp, tube or
> not,
>> > unless
>> >> it is grossly overloaded. The amp is an essential part of the instrument.
>> >>
>> >> Just my tuppence worth.
>>
>> It certainly is. The sound, is what you want it to sound like. The player
>> can do anything he desires. If you like the unretouched sound, then a
>> HiFi amp will do nicely. The electric guitar started out in the beginning
> with a
>> simple amplifier.
>
>And a 'simple' tube amp wil provide several percents worth of distortion.
>
>Use a ss amp for guitar and it simply sounds too clinically 'clean', although
> this effect is quite
>effective for jazz bass though as it more closely resembles the sound of an
> upright.
>
>A tube guitarr amp will however provide a few tenths of a percent distortion at
> low levels gradually
>increasing through the whole number percentages as the power increases and also
> clips relatively softly
>which gives it a compression effect at high power. This is considered the most
> desirable sound for
>electric guitar by most.
>
>
>> >Guitar amps also use intentional loudspeaker colouration too. Indeed there
> are
>> > speakers for
>> >guitar amps that intentionally use known 'defects' to provide 'that sound'.
>> >
>> >Graham
>>
>> Unfortunately, many don't understand speaker physics. Its really neat when
> the player
>> also knows electronics and speakers, and knows how to get what he wants, and
>> knows how to optimize the sound. There was at least one famous guitar
>> player like that.
>>
>> There are typical drivers with smaller voice coils and Alnico magnets which
>> emphasize higher harmonics. There are metal domes ( you don't see these much
> anymore)
>> present which also emphasize high freqs and higher harmonics. They also ring.
>> Most bass players play through inadiquate speakers. Of course, the whole
> deal, like
>> speaker box type, and its position and use in a specified room, all control
>> sound.
>
>I was actually thinking more about cone break-up for example. A nice thin cone
> will be both loud because
>of its low mass and will break up easily giving extra colouration. Alnico's
> simply too exensive to use
>these days.


No. You can buy them. They are usually called vintage.
A 1 inch VC can be used, which is uaually very strange
compared to PA drivers. Jensen, Celestion, Eminence,
all make them.

greg

>Guitar speakers also typically use a paper surround rather than linen or
> synthetic, again for the same
>kind of reasons.
>
>Graham
>
.

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