Re: PIONEER RECEIVERS: Which One Do I Keep?


"James" <james@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Major Jocelyn" <majorj@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Trevor Wilson a écrit :
"EADGBE" <hwbosshoss@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Thanks for taking the time to reply, but I have to say that you seem
to be too biased against "old stuff" to really be able to give me a
thoughtful answer.

**Incorrect. I am merely providing a thoughtful, concise answer. I am
intimately familiar with old equipment.

I'm not trying to insult you, but it does seem to
me that you are one of those who thinks that "old = bad" and "new =
good".

**Nonsense. I am one of those who thinks that old, crappy = bad. Old,
good = good.. New, crappy = bad. New, good = good.

You said it yourself - people are paying big bucks for vintage gear
like this. You have to ask yourself: WHY are they doing it?

**They're deluded.

Totally Wrong! You can get awesome piece of vintage equipment for the
price you will pay for new crappy stuff.

**Wrong. You MIGHT get a piece of adequately functioning equipment. Or
not. You might end up with a piece of junk wich requires vast sums to be
spent, in order to bring it up to a reasonable level of performance.


If there
is one area where people are very picky about getting what they paid
for, it is in the area of home audio. If there wasn't such a demand
for certain pieces of vintage gear, the prices wouldn't be as high as
they are. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR more often than not!

**Nope. More often that not, you get crap, at high prices.

I see that you really but really don't know what you are talking about.

**Really? Let me outline _my_ experience for you:

* 1974-1979 - Service manager for Marantz Australia.
* 1979 - Now - Service tech for my own business. I've serviced thousands
of different products, including many Pioneers. Unlike you, I KNOW
exactly what is wrong with 1970s vinage equipment.

The old Pioneers are better than some and worse than others, in both
design and construction. In all cases, they cannot come close to modern,
PROPERLY designed equipment, in performance on a Dollar for Dollar basis.
Second hand prices are, of course, difficult to assess. I can tell you,
however, that 1970s equipment tends to be over-priced.

Now: Tell me about YOUR experience. How many old Pioneers have you
serviced?


Trevor Wilson
I'd agree completely about the over priced comment. The prices of a lot
of used "vintage" equipment is more than they are actually worth. A lot
of it is nostolgia, not technical superiority. But I'd disagree some on
the comparison of design. Class ab amps have not changed designs all that
much.

**Actually, they've changed quite a bit. Well, perhaps not the power amps.
Tuners, in particular, have improved in leaps and bounds. A bane of my life,
has been servicing old analogue tuners that drift. Digital tuners don't
drift. Some old 1970s stuff used LM741 class OP amps in preamp stages.
Shocking performance. Modern OP amps are far superior. More importantly,
howeer, has been the superior current ability of quality modern products,
compared to 1970s receivers.

State of the art class ab amps from the 70s in good condition have
excellent specifications and that really has not been improved on much.
And those specifications are well better than any human detectable levels.

**Assuming, of course, that every electrolytic cap has been changed.

Power
supply designs have changed but more of that is related to making them
more economical to manufacture and ship rather than technically superior.
Much of the weight in old high end gear is the power transformer and big
caps. No one can afford to ship a 50lb unit in volume any more. Making
more efficient use of power has improved a great deal over the 70s but
again that doesn't result in better sound.

**Not with linear power supplies. The laws of physics hasn't altered since
the 1970s.

Trevor Wilson


.

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