Re: live sound question for my jazz trio

George's Pro Sound Company <bmoas@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Nate Najar" <nate@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
On Mar 29, 9:37 pm, walki...@xxxxxx (hank alrich) wrote:
Nate Najar <n...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 29, 8:03 pm, 0junk...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On 2011-03-29 digi...@xxxxxxxxxxx said:
<big snip of some good points>
To ensure clarity you need something that can do 120 dB at one
meter without blowing up or clipping. Yes, you may bend that spec,
but it is a good aiming point, a lesser system may too easily get
pressed in an overcrowded bar.

This is true, but I'm wondering what kind of venues Nate
usually plays with his trio. I'd echo Hank's suggestion to
have a look at the powered boxes, as well as Scott's to put
the bulk of his investment in speakers.

Still, I wonder what kind of places Nate is playing. I"m
presuming music for dinner etc. instead of traditional bar
situations. I can't picture the pub crawlers digging
acoustic jazz type stuff these days. hE isn't using a
sampler, shouting four letter words or moaning about a tear
in his beer.


Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland:

concert situations. always a listening situation. many venues I work
are theaters with their own sound and tech. but I'm doing more and
more art gallery and museum type things (and the occasional date at a
country club- yech... still, it's a date!) and these rooms don't
typically have production. so I want to carry my own sound, but I
only want to buy it once and I want something good.

I don't need my rig to cover more than 200 people, and that's not a
mingling, talking crowd. it's a listening crowd.

I've done a pretty good job of staying booked and keeping busy
starting music series' at museums and galleries- the crowd likes this
sort of thing, but their not jazz snobs and I don't have to worry
about promoters and the ever shrinking jazz club circuit. and I
always set it up as a concert, not wallpaper music.

the other reason is if I do a recording, the sound coming off the
bandstand is clean and appropriate and I can use a main stereo pair as
pickup along with spot mics.

thanks for all the comments. aside from Hank's powered boxes, what
other speaker recs do you guys have? Scott D says buy the best I can
get- what exactly is that?


A pair of small Meyers, from the Ultra series for your needs. The cost
will shock you, but you won't need or want other speakers before you
die. <g>

I bought a pair of UPA-1A's over two decades ago, have done loads of SR
work with them, mostly acoustic type of stuff, but also blues in
smallish venues (Elvin Bishop, Little Charlie and the Nightcats, Tinsley
Ellis, and many more), and they still sound fine and work very well.
They are not self-powered as are most of the contemporary versions of
the line. I have covered 2K people outdoors at a fiddle contest and
everyone could hear everything played. People were startled.

I rarely use them these days, but they're not worth much on the used
market and when I do deplooy them they do a silly good job.

That said, you might conside renting a pair of the Mackie SRM350's.
Chances are they'd do a good job for you for a fraction of the cost. EAW
engineers designed those (Loud Technologies/Mackie owns EAW) and they
did a very good job. The dispersion pattern is very even and the woofer
to horn transition very smooth. They are better than I would ever have
imagined a mackie box to be. They have nothing likie the power of the
Meyers, which are powerful way beyond one's suspicions for boxes that

The Meyers weigh a hell of a lot more than the Mackies.

shut up and play your guitar

what do you power them with?

Buy the new powered ones.

What George said. When performing the last thing you need is a bunch of
stuff to connect prior to show time, especially if some of that stuff is
heavy, as are UPA's plus good amps, unless you spring for good modern
amps with switching power suppllies, which also are not cheap.

I have 8 of the UPA1's and 12 of the MSL3
you really really really ought buy the dedicated processor as well if you
buy the passive boxes


two upa's with two processors and two amps and the expected
maintence/repairs and cosmetic work will eat up more than the cost of one
new one.

Right, and setup will be much more tedious than just running a balanced
line to a speaker.

it doesn't make sense to get the used stuff unless you already own a couple
of good amps( non fan models would be best for your application) think
bryston 4 for the 12's and haflers for the horns

Again, for Nate's needs, I really think he should rent a pair of
SRM350's before buying anything. Another issue is what it takes to put
speakers up on sticks when that's needed. I welded up some brackets for
my UPA's that allow me to angle the speakers downward, aiming sound at
the audience instead of the back wall of a venue, or the horizon. Those
are bolted to the UPA's and a heavy duty socke assembly attached to the

It works a treat, but the damn speakers with the heavy steel brackets
weigh over 80 lbs. apiece. I was more than twenty years younger than I
am now when I started with the rig, and mounting them is not as easy as
it once was. SRM350's weigh less than thirty lbs. each and cost less
than a decent amp.

shut up and play your guitar *'slistening.html