Re: Latency vs. Sample Rate


"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1137078140.990585.24320@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> Which console?

> I was trying to avoid mentioning that to protect the potentially
> guilty. And I won't tell you if you guess right, but you probalby will.

>> I note that the spec'd delay of my 02R96 is given as < 2.0 ms
>> at 48 KHz and less than 1.1 ms at 96 Khz.

> That's more like it, and how I expected the relationship between delay
> and sample rate to be. But I still wonder if when all is said and done
> and heard, it's still too long for comfortable tracking.

How about, "It depends on"???

> Since the
> usual multitrack monitoring path is from the returns from the recorder,
> whether it's an analog multitrack recorder, a hard disk recorder with
> dedicated "track" outputs, or individual outputs, submixes, or a total
> mix in a DAW, you have the mic going in to the console and its signal
> arriving at the recorder 2 ms later.

Someone isn't following my advice about recording off the outputs of the mic
preamps. ;-)

> An analog recorder can turn that
> around instantly but a digital recorder does the "input monitoring"
> switching at the digital end of the output stage. If it's analog,
> there's about 1.5 ms delay going from analog to digital and back to
> analog, and then another 2 ms or so (optimistically) to get from the
> monitor return out to the headphones on the talent's ears. In the case
> of the console I asked about, this could be more 10 ms worst case all
> around.

As long as that delay or its effects doesn't show up in the recording except
as perhaps a delay between uncorrelated tracks, I don't know how excited I'd
get about it.


> They always show you how cool it is to mix on these things, but they
> never show you what it's like to track on them. <g>

I track on one by implication, and sometimes on purpose. Never seems to be a
problem, but that could have something to do with how I have things set up,
and what my goals are.

>> IOW, its like being 5 feet from the voice coil of a typical floor monitor
>> which is true for everybody but really short people.

> They always say that, and it always works out in practice. But how
> about if rather than standing 5 feet from the monitor, you were wearing
> headphones, as is the case most of the time in the studio?

Then I'm like a really short guy. ;-)

> And besides,
> you have only one delay path in the mix going to a stage monitor
> speaker, you aren't dealing with a round trip to a recorder and back to
> the monitor mix path.

Aren't monitor mixes just transitory things that musos use to sing on the
beat and make their changes?

>> In the case of the 02R96, the extra 2 ms effectively move the stage
>> monitor
>> back another couple of feet. I've never seen a muso run from the room
>> screaming when such a thing happened onstage.

> You're using it on stage. Studio is different.

True. SR is meatball surgery.

> There may be some
> psychology here, and the comb-filtering is never an issue since the
> monitor volume is always louder than the acoustic volume. Maybe this
> is part of the reason why digital consoles are becoming so well
> accepted for live sound (because they don't make things significantly
> worse than real life) but are slow to be accepted in the studio, at
> least for tracking.

Well, if I used a console in the studio, I'd use it for monitoring but keep
it as much as possible outside the recording path. To some degree the kind
of monitoring that musos do during the recording process is a kind of SR, so
meatball surgery can pass.

btw I just checked Crystal's web site. They seem to claim that the delay
through their top-of-the-line converters is about 5 samples for the A/D and
10 for the D/A. That says that most of the delays in these consoles is
happening in DSP-land.


.

Relevant Pages

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    ... usual multitrack monitoring path is from the returns from the recorder, ... you have the mic going in to the console and its signal ... monitor return out to the headphones on the talent's ears. ... If you're sampling at 48 kHz, you want the input filter to axe anything ...
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