Re: OT:O'Reilly doesn't understand rights

In article
<af1d5150-d589-402b-a357-7abb8a0ce6e9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
ScottW2 <ScottW48@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 2, 1:00 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In article
<668e01e6-9d87-4dac-bc1e-a864a7ae9...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,





 ScottW2 <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 2, 10:13 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In article
<c015f6b6-9d89-4fd3-b9fe-ebe97e722...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,

 ScottW2 <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 2, 7:21 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In article
<89529305-9c38-4500-bd06-c732a8c70...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,

 ScottW2 <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 1, 5:21 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In article
<803d60eb-4b79-43ad-ac0d-469cbf074...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
om>,

 ScottW2 <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 1, 3:36 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
In article
<jennconductsREMOVETHIS-1DD60A.15321401062...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
bal.
net>
,

 Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Obviously we're not understanding each other on this part
of
the
issue.  
Your sentence, "Do you think the likes of Acorn or the
CTA
should
be
allowed efforts to deter free speech while receiving
gov't
money?" is
far too vague.  Who is deterring whom's free speech?  The
pro
8
people
have FS rights, as do the anti 8 people.

By the way, what government money does CTA receive?

Teacher salaries paid by gov't money extorted (sic) as union
dues.

So my paperboy also receives "gov't" money.  Man, another one
on
the
dole.

 Unlike your dues,

I don't pay dues.

 How fortunate.  But you do support the CTA or is that
a presumption?

I've happily paid union dues in the past in various locales, including
my present one.
 I have severe disagreements with our college's local of
AFT.  I think that I've mentioned here in the past that I was involved
in a personnel issue at the college, and was under subpoena for two
years.

 Sounds interesting. I don't think this forum is appropriate for the
gory
details....but don't let me deter you.

I was part of a peer evaluation of a faculty member (that's how we do
evaluations here) who, in the minds of the administration, the then
Division Chair, and the eval committee, needs to leave.  Our bad eval
would have been the 2nd step in getting rid of her.  She started a
grievance to quash the eval, based on process, supported by the union,
and they won.

Unions seem to go to great lengths to protect the incompetent.

They were protecting the process, which I understand. Kind of like
perps getting out due to Miranda screwup. Is it worth it? Hard to say.
She's an excellent pedagogue; fantastic really.



 I resigned from our local at that time, in protest.  I make a
small yearly donation to them now, as they work to negotiate my
contract.

 Which implies you support all the terms of your contract

No, that doesn't logically follow.

So what part of the contract are you withholding your donation over?

None of it. It's about application. Tough to explain without going
into detail.




which
IME, are not always beneficial to students.

Since you presumably haven't read our contract, you don't know that.

Why don't you fill us in on the details for unions preventing the
discharge
of incompetent or even dangerous teachers at times.

Except in cases of "protecting the process", I've never seen that
happen. It's entirely possible to fire bad teachers. In my experience,
the problem lays with spineless administration.


Here's some of the info we parents/taxpayers have to go by.

http://www.wavenewspapers.com/special-sections/la-unified/44562892.html






 Yes, you presumed that I support CTA.  I'm fairly neutral
about them, as I've seen no evidence that they are a negative for
students.

  I think their seniority retention policy in the face of workforce
reductions
is bad for students.  Don't you think the best, rather than the most
experienced,
teachers should be retained?

Among a class of employees, isn't seniority the usual criteria?

NO. In the non-union private sector it's strictly performance and
skill set.
Seniority often weighs against an employee as they get paid more.
All things equal, you can't let go a "protected work class" employee
for an unprotected employee. Things are never equal.

That's for sure. So in an activity like teaching, and in economic times
likes these, it's tough to show that the 30 yr ver is a lesser teacher
than a rookie.




his service is optional

Apple and oranges.  A teacher working in a closed shop is
performing
optional service as well.  She can work elsewhere.

and gays can marry elsewhere.  Somehow this argument is lacking.

and he doesn't use his fee
to lobby the gov't to buy more papers or get laws passed like we
need
x paperboys for every y houses on the street.

Classrooms with fewer students are generally far better than those
with
more.

What good are educated students with no job prospects in this state?

Good point.  Let's stop doing it.

California needs to find a balance between valid social services (like
education)
and tax policies that allow the economy to thrive. Obviously our
legislature has allowed things to seriously out of whack and their
solutions of ever increasing taxes
has been rejected by the people.  Now they need to embark on a policy
of economic growth to spur revenue growth but our budgets seem too
short sighted for that.

I agree.  The state's budget process needs to be totally revamped.  
Prop. 13, for example, needs to be reworked.

Prop 13 has actually acted to moderate the fluctuation in property
tax
revenue as the fall hasn't pushed many people below appraised tax
value.

Yes, it has acted to moderate the fluctuation to an unrealistically low
point.



Meanwhile we have Obama getting advised to implement a VAT

I haven't read that he's being "advised to implement", but rather that
it's a topic of discussion.

What do advisers do during discussions? Some are pushing it.

We don't know. Probably so though.

ScottW
.

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