Re: NAT: Change in Education

On 23 Mai, 17:46, ScottW2 <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 23, 1:43 pm, Mr.clydesl...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:





On 23 Mai, 16:14, ScottW2 <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 23, 10:11 am, Mr.clydesl...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On 23 Mai, 12:55, ScottW <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/23/1n23online212623-s...

"Anthony is among 2,100 students in the San Diego Unified School
District who made up more than 3,100 classes entirely on computers
through a $350,000 “credit recovery program” that started in
September. Nearly half will graduate next month.
“I know I'm smart, but I didn't think I would graduate,” said Anthony,
17, who passed the high school exit exam during his difficult
sophomore year. “Then they put me in this class. I worked hard and I
got to go at my own pace.”
Students can retake core classes and some electives they flunked or
earned a D in – everything from chemistry to music appreciation –
without lectures, classroom discussions or essays. The courses
prescribe reading, quizzes and exams. "

This is great.  Programs like these can be deployed far more broadly
to dramatically reduce the cost of high school education.

"Teachers and counselors hired as “graduation coaches” staff the
classes at the district's 16 high school campuses, helping students
and overseeing their work.
But is passing an online version of senior English the same as sitting
through a traditional class with discussions and essays?
“It's not the same, of course not. But these students have tried that
once and it didn't work for them,” said Mission Bay High School coach
Angela Bolick. “What's the definition of insanity: doing the same
thing over and over again and expecting different results?”
That insanity can be seen in dropout statistics.
About one in five students dropped out of a California high school
last year, according to the state Department of Education. The dropout
rate in San Diego Unified improved last year to the point where fewer
than one student in 10 is giving up on school, but educators say more
must be done.
Dropouts have higher rates of unemployment, lower earnings and higher
mortality rates. They are also more likely to end up incarcerated and
rely on public assistance, according to recent study by the California
Dropout Research Project. "

Dropout unemployment needs to be better understood.  Are they
unemployed because they lack the skills of a high school education or
are they unemployed because they lack the bonafides required (a
diploma)?  I think in many cases it's the latter as High School
provides little in the way of real employment skills anyway.  By the
end of middle school kids should have the basics of reading writing
and arithmetic required for unskilled labor jobs. High school provides
little more for those who don't continue to college.

So what does the union think?  Exactly what you'd expect.  They sound
like Home Depot cashiers panicing with the implementation of self
checkout.

"However, Camille Zombro, who heads the San Diego teachers union, said
the program has suffered with technical problems and has raised
questions about the quality of instruction.
“Sure these students are going to graduate, but then what happens? Are
they going to be able to thrive in a college setting?” she said..
“Where is the long-term research? And why is it that it's always the
neediest kids that we experiment with? The district is building the
plane while it's flying it, only there are children on the plane.” "

IME, one of the biggest transitions from High School to college was
that college is much more self-taught than High School classes.  They
don't cover everything in the lectures or quiz sections or the labs.
1-1 or even 40-1 prof time in most of early requirements (math,
chemistry, physics)
is unheard of.  The quiz sections staffed by grad students (as a bone
tossed to them not for their teaching skills, many could barely speak
english, but for their services to the professor in some unknown
capacity) was often a waste of time beyond this is where you hand in
your assignment.  So being exposed to self-taught programs may
actually be better preparation for college than the nursemaiding most
CTA members claim is required.

But this does expose something I've long complained about.
"For example, 25 percent of science classes are supposed be completed
in labs, but the district had trouble coordinating that component this
year. It plans to require it in the fall. And students are not
required to write essays in online English classes, even though the
courses were designed to include writing tests. The reason? Not all
graduation coaches are credentialed English teachers and not
considered “highly qualified” to grade papers under No Child Left
Behind. The district is working to find a way to include more writing
in the credit recovery classes."

Efforts to improve the quality of education have inflated the cost
tremendously through ridiculous teacher credential requirements.  We
don't have enough credentialed teachers to grade the English papers so
they don't have the kids write papers.  Unbelievable.

ScottW

I agree with most of this, except for this:
"ridiculous teacher credential requirements"
teachers should be graded on their own qualifications to teach the
children.

 Trouble is, we've set the qualification credential so high, we can no
longer
afford to pay them appropriately for the credentials they hold.   We
carefully measure how qualified teachers are while generally ignoring
their actual performance and in some cases, creating bogus shortages
of "credentialed" teachers.

ScottW-

Just think what might have happened if you had a more highly
qualified English teacher.

Does it make you feel better that I now support high school typing
as a requirement thanks to you?

ScottW-

Only if they use the most highly qaulified teachers.
.

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  • Re: NAT: Change in Education
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