Re: Why We Need Audiophiles

On Apr 17, 10:33 am, calvin coolidge <calvincoolidg...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:46 am, ScottW2 <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Apr 17, 8:00 am, calvin coolidge <calvincoolidg...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Apr 16, 10:12 pm, "TT" <TTencerNoS...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"calvin coolidge" <calvincoolidg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in
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On Apr 16, 9:17?am, "TT" <TTencerNoS...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"calvin coolidge" <calvincoolidg...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in
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On Apr 15, 10:13?pm, "TT" <TTencerNoS...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"ScottW2" <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Apr 15, 5:43 pm, "TT" <TTencerNoS...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"ScottW2" <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Apr 15, 2:53 pm, mebratziuj...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

Because if you can hear, it, if you
ever get to live in that 3D space, you'll be glad
Fremer
helped defend
it."

Same 'ol golden ear argument.

I always find media honks interviewing and praising
media
honks
a bit incestuously creepy.

And Police investigating Police. The argument is there
everywhere, you can't have an unbiased review from
someone
with pecuniary interests!

I will still defy anyone to tell the difference
between a
$1,000 and a $4,000 power cable! Or for that matter a
$2.00
one from Wallmart ;-) Straight away the author loses
any
creditability with me when he talks such rubbish.

?Agreed. ?It was amusing to see his feeble attempt to
establish
credibility by painting Fremer as a nut in the opening
segment.
But he quickly pissed it away with his cable crap and
then the "we" comment confirmed the writer was just
throwing
words on a page to see if it was sticky.

"This man listens to music and makes sure it was
recorded
with
the best fidelity, that the intents of the artist have
been
preserved.
And thank God he does, because we certainly don't."

Yeah..that was sticky, but not in a good way.

ScottW

One of the major downsides to our hobby is that it
attracts
all sort of nutters, snake oil merchants, outright liars
and
con men of the highest degree :-( ?Mix all this with
some
quasi-religious zealotry, a buying public that has
enlarged
wallets and look what we end up with?

I'm exposed to a lot of high-end equipment, and I'd have
to disagree.

You can disagree with me anytime without fear of me "doing
an Arny" i.e.
ranting and raving and calling you all sorts of names and
accusing you
sexual devience ;-)

I don't see the same level of tweakery that I did ten or
fifteen years
ago. Most high-end guys stick to the basics...room setup,
speaker
positioning, etc.

I am pleased to hear you don't associate with the guys
from the Twilight
zone then. :-))

Power conditioning is used because it protects
equipment and reduces line noise, not because it "fills
out the
midrange" or "gives you about 5% more bass." Premium power
cords are
still a subject of contention, but hospital-grade outlets
and the like
are useful because they're robust. Have you ever seen a
cheap, frayed
power cord on a piece of hi-fi equipment? I have.
Isolation platforms
should be used in a problem-solving application, not to
"reduce grain
in the upper mids."

I certainly have no aversion to applying fixes to problems
or in the
protection of gear. ?My whole house is surge protected at
the meter box.
Anything short of a direct lightening strike to it should
see me about
covered.

Green pens, CD clarifiers and CD cutting lathes have come
and gone.
For the most part, these tweaks did not support the lofty
claims. But
many items that were once considered tweaks are now
considered
essential. I still remember being told that record
cleaning machines
were a luxury, that they didn't really clean better than a
bottle of
Joy and a sink full of water.

LP vacuum cleaners are essential IMHO now. My humble
VPI16.5 is singularly
the biggest sound quality improvement I have ever made in
my system.
Everything else has always been incremental but not so
with unit.

So I'm not big on the whole "snake oil" argument. If
you're spending
big money on Mpingo discs or Marigo ceramic dots, then
you're probably
not worried about putting food on the table or getting
your kids
through college. Have fun. It's a hobby.

I do have fun and yes it is a great hobby ;-)

BTW My current project is evaluating a Sony PS3 as a media
server, Blu-Ray
player and VoIP phone. ?So far so good.

I think all of this debate can be settled by simply going
into a room
and listening to a high-quality system that has been set up
correctly.
It really is much, much better than the middle-of-the-road
stuff. I
do have a friend, however, with a $250,000 system, and
whenever I hear
it I think, "Wow, this is really spectacular, but I could do
a lot of
living for $250,000."

When he bought a $60,000 turntable, I said to myself that
"this is the
best analog I've ever heard. But for this kind of money I'd
have a lot
more fun with a BMW M3."

But whenever I meet the people who think that the high-end
is
ridiculous, nine times out of ten they haven't been exposed
to a great
system. They form their opinions based on reviews and audio
shows and
"audio saloons." It's kind of like complaining about the
handling and
suspension in a Porsche Cayman S after seeing a photograph
of one in a
calendar.

I have informed opinions and I do hope you haven't gotten
the impression otherwise. I had a friend who used to live
nearby and his system was a set of Genesis 1.0 speakers,
Simon York T/T, Atmasphere tube amps (amongst several others
he regularly tried), he even had 2 (yes TWO!!!) ELP laser
T/Ts. So this guy was *NEVER* short on gear to try and I
fairly regularly was around helping him with blind testing.

One very memorable day we compared LPs, CDs and SACDs of the
same music to try and nail the differences. We even then
compared the ELP laser T/T with his Simon York. It was a
great day. This was when I was first introduced to LP
vacuum cleaners and was instantly converted to their
usefulness :-)

But I have digressed a little. So basically his system was
in the US$250,000 that you have mentioned and as impressive
as it was I did not enjoy it. For one thing the bass was
overkill and he was always riding the bass controller and I
bet he was sick of cracking cornices in house as well ;-)

BTW he also had two sets of Martin Logans (he loaned me his
small set) and heaps of other gear.

At another place I have also listened to Wilson Maxx
speakers driven by Halcro monoblocks, Shangling tubed CD
player etc and was particularly underwhelmed as well.

The point I would like make is that people think if you
throw *HUGE* amounts of money at this hobby it will
automatically sound great. Where as it can often sound
quite mediocre or even dreadful.

Bottom line is if you can afford it and you can justify it
then why not do it. After all you can't take it with you
;-) Where as my approach is, there is a hell of a lot of
other stuff I would rather spend my money on on. Oh and BTW
the wife has a bit of say in this to ;-)

Jim Smith (the real one, not Arny's fake sockpuppet), pretty much
addresses this in his new book. He told me that he could grab an old
pair of Advents, a Marantz receiver and an old Pioneer belt drive
turntable and get better sound than many guys do from their $20,000
rigs. It's all about set up and getting the room right.

You can't get good sound out of a crappy speaker...I don't care what
the room or setup is.
I've had a pair of Original Large Advents for 30 years and they
are very musical and easy to listen to speakers, not crappy at
all.

Hmmm...I'm looking at my post and trying to see where I called the
Advents crappy. I don't see it.

I'm looking at my post and trying to see where I said you did.
I don't see it.

I was just expanding on your point which I don't wholly disagree with
though "all" is a clearly a right wing extremist claim.

I guess you're really Jonesin' for an argument.

Who has to Jones you to get an argument? LoL.
Next thing you know I'll be taking food out of your
childrens mouths.

ScottW
.

Relevant Pages

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