Re: OT:Recording session yesterday

On Jun 2, 10:29 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <uB01k.535$QI2....@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,





 "ScottW" <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 2, 2:14 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
 > In article
 > <f7f66bf9-eb35-4f3d-80b0-e2887a91b...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,

 >  ScottW <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 > > On Jun 2, 1:24 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

 > > > > > Classes are over.  I'm taking a few days off.

 > > > > > Let's take an example:  Do you not feel the following is
 > > > > > important?
 > > > > > 6. Satisfy the Developing English Language Skills, including
 > > > > > Reading
 > > > > > requirement by completing a comprehensive
 > > > > > reading instruction course that includes the following:
the systematic
 > > > > > study of phonemic awareness, phonics, and
 > > > > > decoding; literature, language and comprehension; and diagnostic
 > > > > > and
 > > > > > early intervention techniques

 > > > >  Not if they already have a degree in something relevant like
 > > > > education.

 > > > You have to have a degree in something other than education.

 > > > > It's requirements on requirements.  and why do all K-12 need this?

 > > > Because there are students that need help in reading skills in all
 > > > grades.

 > >  If I'm teaching science should I take time to remediate reading for
 > > a
 > > few students?

 > It generally doesn't happen as a CLASS, but individually.

  When do classroom teachers have time to provide individual remediate
  reading
without becoming deviating from their primary objective for the rest
of the class?

Follow a teacher around and you might find out.

I might find out why test scores are declining and core
course content diminishing.
I went to parent day etc and did exactly that.
Every class was practically remedial.

 I help students with
their reading nearly weekly.  When I taught high school, it was more
like daily.

Strong indictment of the system. Why do you oppose change
for the better?




 > >   Why not require them to take remedial reading
 > > and keep the science class on track?

 > They ARE required to take remedial reading, usually in their English
 > class.  But are they to not take any science until they read at the
 > level of the rest of the class?

  If they truly can't keep up, yes.  It does no good and great harm
to make the science teacher stop teaching science for a few students
who can't read.
Now you're arguing to maintain the broken system by advancing
kids who should not be advanced.

No, I'm not.  I'm stating reality.

And opposing change.

 The teachers don't make decisions
about promotion policy.  They have to deal with reality and help kids to
succeed.  

I'm not putting all the blame on teachers. I blame the administrators
and the
school boards and the state and fed dept of education.
They act like teaching kids is rocket science, that all the kids
have mental health issues and educating requires psychological
therapy. I've got news for 'em. It only requires discipline.
Schools have completely lost all discipline.

Sister Mary Elephant did a better job.



 > > This is a big problem. I've had teachers in conference when my kid
 > > was in middle school tell me that they can't teach the cirriculum
 > > because
 > > more than half the kids in class are english learners and they spend
 > > all their time
 > > teaching them english instead of civics or history.

 > Yep, welcome to the real world.  What is your solution?

  If the kids can't read or understand english, they go straight into
rehab.  Intensive english and/or reading until they can keep up.
No point in putting 'em in the population and f'ing up all the kids
classes.

See below about smaller classes.

Nonsense.




 > > > > Do high school senior teachers need this?

 > > > Yes.

 > > > > Why? Because those who taught before them failed.

 > > > lol  Yes, I know that's your view.
 > > > What failed them is a system that passes students to higher grades who
 > > > shouldn't be.

  A system your argument above advocates.

Nope, just reality.



 > >  And making all the teachers take reading instruction classes fixes
 > > this how?

 > There are students in ALL classes who need help with reading.

  All the way to the 12th grade?   GMAFB.

You betcha.  If you don't believe me, speak to any high school teacher
about the reading levels of some of their students.

And your system is going to continue this indefinitely.



 >  Look up
 > "reading across the curriculum".  There will always be students who need
 > reading help in other than their English class.

  If they aren't proficient enought to take science then they don't go
into science.  It's called a prerequisite, widely used in many colleges.

But colleges don't have mandatory enrollment laws.

Do you want to fix it or just be a naysaying obstacle?
Is this what happens when teachers become administrators?
The get the mandatory "I can't" shot?

 It's an optional
activity.  K-12 is mandatory.  There certainly ARE prereqs in high
school, but parents will never stand for not being able to take science,
algebra, or history until their kids can read well enough to not require
help.

BULL***. This is stupid talk. Make the reading proficiency
mandatory
and offer programs to get there.
Parents may be pissed there kids have been in school for years and
haven't
learned to read but they're equally pissed when they find their kids
need
2 years of no-credit remedial classes to even get into college.
Tell the parents, this programs f'd up. You want to get your kids
educated or do you want a rubber stamp diploma any illiterate can
attain?


 Parents elect the school board, who appoints the Superintendent,
who hires and fires the Principals, who supervises the teachers.  THAT
is the reality of the system.

I had an election today. 2 unopposed representatives, a couple of
judges
I never heard of, a couple of props (98 and 99) that were put forth
by liars,
and the School Board candidates who I also never heard of and can get
zero useful info for.

So you're right. The elected school board is a joke.
But the state dept. of education has some teeth. They can make this
happen. All the friggin naysaying whiny BS about why a F'd up system
has to stay F'd up is really disappointing from a publicly funded
education administrator who CLAIMS they devoted their life
to improving education. Boy have you gone astray.

ScottW
.

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