Re: OT: A Debate that is Overdue

In article <1184090400.910208.226010@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
ScottW <ScottW48@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jul 10, 10:41 am, MiNe 109 <smcelr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <1184087601.203447.40...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,

ScottW <Scott...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

<snip>





We need to separate the nutters like McVeigh and the abortion
bomber
of which there will always be a few acting as individuals
from the movement
within Islam which is far greater in numbers and support.

Islam is responsible for Islamic terrorists, but Christian
terrorists
are on their own? I don't buy it.

When polls show a significant percentage of Christians supporting
McVeigh you would have a point. But they don't so you don't.

Using your standards, one could say that Christians don't denounce
domestic terror by Christians with sufficient vigor. Think of how a
pipe-bomb at an abortion clinic barely makes the news.

Now Christians control the news? When did that happen?
In any case, I am not aware of any pipe bombings that did not
make the news.

It's that jumping conclusions thing again. First, I did not claim
Christians control the news.

No..you just blame them when something doesn't make
the news.

You're missing the point that Christian extremists get a relatively free
pass compared to your views of Islam and Islamic extremists.

Second, I said "barely" make the news. An
example is the recent pipebomb attempt in Austin. Didn't hear of it?
That's the point. The chorus of Christian denunciation should have
brought it to your attention.

Paul Ross Evans? He wasn't even claiming to be Christian from
what I can tell.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/05/16/16evans.html?cx
type=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=52

"Evans is currently in federal custody without bond. He was previously
convicted of breaking into cars and robbing a convenience store and
fast-food restaurant with a pellet gun. Evans was paroled in 2005
after serving the first three years of a 15-year sentence.

Erik Vasys, a spokesperson for the FBI's San Antonio office, told the
AP that authorities are still trying to determine if Evans had strong
anti-abortion views. "

He also attempted suicide while in custody before trial. Some
Christian.

Fellow-traveler with right-wing anti-abortionist extremists. Imagine the
uproar if his religion and his target were different.

You could also compare the coverage of the recent inept British terror
attempts to that of David Copeland, the "nail gunner," or those Alabama
dudes who wanted go defend the border freelance.

How significant are the groups these nutters represent?
Are there approximately 100 million people worldwide who support
the "nail gunner"?

That's the premise you should examine, the nature of the "support" you
claim for Islamic terrorists.

A 'significant percentage' of Christians might share McVeigh's goals
and
ideals if those are separated from his methods in a poll.

So.

Wait for it. You're interrupting the point.

Likewise, you
might find that what you think is Islamic support for 'terrorism' is
really support for local autonomy or resentment of the US.

I know you want to blur the lines of method and motive
but they are clear. I don't care what the motive, terrorism
is not an acceptable method.

I have not called it an acceptable method, nor is more knowledge and
understanding "blurring". If anything, it's "focussing".

You, on the other hand, are attempting to set aside alternate
explanations that aren't as politically convenient for you.

I don't even consider this issue a political matter. I consider
it a social matter of dire consequences.

You should welcome a greater understanding.

BTW...was this 14 year old pakistani suicide bomber
protecting his homeland?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070710/news_1n10afghan.html

Probably, yes.

A 14 year old Pakistani arrested in Afghanistan?
If you accept all this cross border defense you blur homeland with
Islamic land and the whole mess comes back to religion,
Islam defending its turf.

That's a dodge. No one has said that "homeland" is identical to
political boundaries nor is "Islamic land" the only alternative.
Pakistan is, what, 60 years old as a nation? Ethnic and tribal
identities run deeper than that.

Stephen
.

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