Re: Q. Does anyone have anything but LIES to say here?

On 23 Apr 2006 01:13:23 -0700, soundhaspriority@xxxxxxxxx wrote:


I'm not discounting the fact that one's system needs to be tweaked with
Belt products or ideas to achieve a degree of musical realism that
involves the listener to a great deal. But I will say that in my not
insignificant amount of experience with audio, there isn't anything
else I've found that affects the type of changes Belt's concepts do.
It's basically an issue of all roads lead to Rome. But not necessarily
to the same -places- in Rome. A properly "Belted" system is one rich in
tonal colours and a certain vitality. It reminds me of the difference
between a really well tuned well designed spring suspended turntable
and just a good cd player. Both can sound musical, but in my
experience, only one sounds more effortlessly natural. (Hmmm.... do I
have to point out its the turntable?!)

I can dig that. I encountered a similar effect using a thick rubber
mat on my turntable (years ago) in place of the thin rubbish one. Or
damping the lid of a Sony CD65 player. 3D improved too.

I've dampened all kinds of parts on cd players, I NEVER been able to
transform them into the sound of turntables. So perhaps we're not
talking about the same sound, here. You can't get that sound by
muffling cd sound, because what I'm getting off my cheap but Belted
system is more information, information which describes the full body,
timbral nature and dimensions of an instrument or voice. It all makes
up for a richness not found on the typical cd player (and yet I'm
describing the sound of mp3's recorded and played back on a cd-r!).
I've also experimented with different mats, but can't say they
transformed my turntable into "effortlessly natural", since the decks
already tend to be that way. I found the best mats were the very thin,
rice papery Dynamats. I also made my own version of that which can work
very well, although not nearly as well as the real mccoy.

This was discussed on RAO recently and I gave my POV then. I conceded
that vinyl sounds better but the distractions and inconvenience are
just too much. People are more or less sensitive to surface noise,
inner groove distortion, pre & post echo, rumble, wow and flutter etc.
I was sensitive to them all, but surface noise particularly drove me
crazy. I also found LPs to be just too vulnerable, easily scratched, a
pain to store...for me it was always a medium that didn't really work
in any way other than sound quality, and that alone wasn't enough to
sway me. I agree that early CD players and CDs were woeful, but things
HAVE changed--truly. I'm currently listening to the soundtrack of the
latest Star Wars film (John Williams conducting the London Symphony)
on a cheap Pioneer DVD player through a 1991 Marantz SR50 receiver
into Sennheiser HD595 headphones and the sound is amazingly good---and
yes, I do remember what live music sounds like. There's a bit of
synergy here, of course, but all the components, even the Pioneer,
have been well reviewed for sound quality and the reviews, despite
what's often said here about hi-fi magazines, were not entirely
erronious or fraudulent. I'm happy with the sound. I wish all CDs
sounded as good as the Star Wars, it's true, but at least I know this
standard is possible witrh CDs and that things are getting better.

That is not so. We DO have a choice as to whether we wish to delude
ourselves with ignorant lies or not. In the case that we're discussing
here, you're making assumptions for another person. But you don't know
that person. All you know, is that person told you otherwise, about
whether he's well and truly satisfied with his sound. All you have to
do to get out of this vicious cycle of ignorant lies is to keep
reminding yourself that YOUR experiences are not the experiences of
others. Again, you have a choice.

We all share certain characteristics. Men especially share the
characteristic of boundless curiousity. So in that sense I do know
Fella and the others. (Unless of course he's not really "Fella". :-))

The men on this group of ne'er do wells certainly do not share this
characteristic of "boundless curiousity". This was in fact, one of my
complaints against the group in general, in my report and elsewhere. If
it were the case, people wouldn't be spending 12 weeks and thousands of
lines fighting me over my tweaks, instead of taking 30 seconds to try
them.

Sorry, I forgot about your disgruntlement with RAO. Perhaps I was
thinking of younger men and boys. Maybe they're all too grey and tired
here---who knows?

It's why I often use the phrase "lazy audiophiles" to describe the
inhabitants of RAO. So not only have you proven to not know Fella, you
don't even know the rest of the Pitchfork Gang you hang with.

Don't "hang" with this group. I make pertinent comments where I see
fit, some of them sarcastic. There are absurdities galore here to
comment on, and it's a shame to miss the opportunity.

What you
share with the other men here, is the "knowledge of assumption".

That itself is an assumption, and an unwarranted one. I don't in fact
share much with the other men here at all, and that includes cynicism.

Which isn't knowledge at all. People have assumed a million and one things
about me here, and 99 times out of 100, are totally wrong.

Well, you know how to fix that. don't you? Say straight out who you
are and tell us about yourself. Keep people guessing and you'll get
wrong assumptions. Richard, Graham, Jamie Benchimol...who or what?
People don't love a mystery, they resent it.

Just like when I say that in 20-50 years, people will stop scoffing at
my tweaks, because knowledge about quantum mechanics/morphogenetic
resonance and the reality implied by this knowledge will grown and
finally trickle down to the masses, and gain wider acceptance in both
the scientific community, and the audio community. Of course, you'll be
dead by then, so too late for me to say "Told ya so!".

Why do I have doubts about this? Must be my ignorance.

I have my doubts as well, but... it's a long established pattern in the
world of the sciences that it can take decades or longer before novel
discoveries are accepted into the mainstream. Look how long it took for
people to believe the world isn't flat. And if you look around this
group, you'll find many Flatlanders STILL don't seem to believe it
isn't!

You can't -show- them it isn't flat because that's a long walk. And
they're not prepared to take even two steps forward out of curiousity
that you might be right. And they ask for proof it isn't flat, but then
they take your so-called "proof" in their fat, grubby piggy paws, and
they twist and wrench it into all sorts of permutations, then angrily
crush it into a ball and throw it back at you, and without a second
thought, declare that there's nothing there of note. Hence the reason I
keep saying about my tweaks and RAO, that you can't put pearls before
swine.

So you haven't read the story of Noah, or a hundred other Biblical
and/or historical notables who had their pleadings for reason thrown
back in their faces. Or Jesus saying, "A prophet is not without honour
save in his own country." Not that I want to anoint you as a prophet
or anything like that. I just thought in your messianic mood it might
be a comfort. Your beer is currently getting diluted with tears.


(snip long diatribe on the evils of CD players etc. Relevant as far as
it goes, but omits the reality that people are swayed by more than
sound quality. Sad but true)

But so am I when I say that if I write something beyond a couple of
lines, nine times out of ten it passes over the heads of everyone here.
It's a documented fact that people are getting dumber and dumber and
having a shorter and shorter attention span. But **especially**
Americans. Which makes it nearly impossible to have a serious
discussion about -anything-, on what used to be a fairly productive
discussion group but I see has degenerated into a steaming pile of
flaming garbage, non-stop 24/7, whereby most posts are "disposable",
filled with meaningless tripe. Look at the -entire- catalogue of
thousands of posts from George "Shovels" Middius over 8 years time, and
name me the one post that you don't think is disposable, that you
wouldn't throw out? There's no end of such examples.

This requires comment. There are thousands of posts. If every post was
as long as most of yours are, RAO would be a permanent occupation for
most posters.

What are you talking about?? It IS a "permanent occupation" for most
posters! When the heck have you been here and NOT seen Shovels churning
out the derision? He's been here nearly every day for 8 years, Arny for
10, Morein's claim to fame is trolling the group for 7 years. And
judging by the way that Crazy Bob posts 3 crazy replies for every one
of mine, day in day out, whether I'm posting or not, and often minutes
if not seconds after one of my messages goes up, I'd say this is a
permanent occupation for him as well. Nobody with a real job could
possibly have put up the thousands of messages that he has, just
against one poster (McCarty). McCarty claims that Morein has never held
a real job and lives in his father's basement, churning out this crap
on a full time basis and you know what, I believe him. It's a lot more
credible than anything Morein has ever said about me.

Compare me to say, Arny, you'll find that while my posts are usually
many times longer, they are very much fewer. I should know, I often
wished I were able to post as many times as my opponents were able to,
but the sad fact is, I'd much rather write something that is worth
reading (at least to halfway intelligent people that -can- read), than
to write mindless 2-line drivel all the live long day. Like for example
what Robert's doing all over the place these days. (typical Morein
post: "You're a shill. - Love, SHP"). I just think to myself "What kind
of a mindless MF do you have to be, to enjoy spewing meaningless crap
like that all day long for every day of your life? And this after
spending the last 15 years acquiring 7 phds to write mindless
meaningless empty-headed crap like that all day long, for the rest of
your life?".

I absolutely agree that there's a general dumbing down;
by the same token people have less time and are generally
overstimulated by their environment.

That's not a coincidence, you know. That's part of the problem that's
making people stupider and stupider.

Couldn't agree more. It seems that the more frantically the surface of
people's mind are stimulated, the less able they are to think with any
depth. More forward progress, less downward penetration. So films move
at a million miles an hour but are totally without substance. So
camera angles are changed every 3 seconds for no apparent reason other
than to alter the viewpoint and give people a new image, even if the
last one barely had time to register. So art music has virtually died
out in favour of rap and rock that isn't just insubstantial but
positively destructive. But hey, now I'm crying into my beer.

I myself have found myself
becoming more impatient, less willing to read long posts, or at least
to puzzle out the more intricately reasoned arguments.

Don't forget to wave bye-bye to your brain, Paul! I think it might be
catching the southbound, if you can still make the departure.

I've still got a slight grip on sanity. And substance.

What's the
answer? Kill off TV, movies, video games?

Probably be a good start.

But it isn't really simply the media that's the problem. It's the
*content* of the media. Before today, tv and movies in general was a
lot smarter than it is now. Compare, say, Rod Sterling's Playhouse
Theater with more modern popular shows like "Friends" (or whatever is
the current equivalent, as I haven't watched tv in years). Compare
James Stewart's movies with Steven Seagal's. And even Atari's "Pong"
was a more intelligent video game than the putrid violent crap that you
see all over the place today. Media marketers are not just catering to
the lowest common denominator, they are -creating- the lowest common
denominator, and lowering the bar every year.

Yep. Who was that Hollywood producer who remarked somewhat scarily,
"We've finally managed to create the audience we deserve"? It's one of
the few occasions anyone in Hollywood has acknowledged the hideous
effect they've had on their young audiences, who now have not only
ceased to expect quality but don't know what it is, and when they see
it whine contemptuously, "Oh this is boring! What else is on?" I feel
genuinely sorry for young people today, that they won't know the
intellectual and emotional delights that I knew growing up with films
like "Ben-Hur", "Spartacus", "2001, A Space Odyssey", "The
Pawnbroker", "Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf." Buy hey, now my beer's
getting really diluted.

It's the current state of
play, and since you're talking about something that most posters don't
really grasp and probably aren't likely to (and I'm not even talking
about Arnie, Mike M. or Sullivan) then you can't really be surprised
that your posts aren't examined and replied to in detail and with
great intelligence.

Agree, but who said I was surprised? I've played the game here much too
long to be surprised, and its by far not the first time I've made the
observation to RAO about its lack of intelligent discussion, the
rampant and risible hypocrisy seen all over the place from -both-
ideological camps, the paranoid assumptions that people constantly make
about each other, and the commonplace belief people have here that
their unproven lies, whether deliberate or by assumption, whether about
audio or about me or about others, are true.

Which is why I try not to get too deeply involved in any of it.

Of course, people are free to lie to themselves constantly, and believe
all sorts of lying nonsense about audio or others on the group, or the
rest of the world. As they are free to write dumb crap all day long and
think they're clever or funny, free to make endless attempts to debase,
deride, defame, discredit others that come on the group (and those that
don't, as we've seen of Robert Morein's attack on Dr. Richard Graham),
free to prove what assholes they are to the free world, and the last
thing I would try to do these days, is supress their freedom on this
group. (As Robert Morein is trying to do with me via his attack
campaign).

But that doesn't stop me from pointing out the truth about people's
behaviour here, because as I've seen, most do NOT have the insight to
understand what liars and hypocrites they are, and just how meaningless
the drivel they write is.

I personally think you're sincere in your beliefs,
but I also think you're asking too much to drop into an NG like RAO,
start preaching a whole new doctrine apparently derived from a
parallel universe and then berate posters for casting scorn.

I'm not asking too much of myself to do that. I did say it was an
experiment, remember? I came here to try to learn some things (which I
have), and maybe to teach if I could, not to attack people. I find it
quite amazing that people confuse themselves so much as to even
question the fact that I'm sincere in my beliefs about audio, but
that's one of those fascinating things about people that I learned
during my recent stay.

None of my beliefs is derived from a "parallel universe", it's all
based in science (I'm sure...), but that's just you being insulting
again, isn't it.

Nope. It's my take on how your initial pronouncements were received.

And while I would have been quite happy not to attack
people and just have nice, friendly, fireside chats about audio, I'm
also quite happy to attack them as well, if they insist on attacking me
(ie. casting scorn). Ultimately, I don't care whether people believe me
or not, try my tweaks or not, attack me or not. It's all good. I go
with the flow.

This is the age of skepticism.

"Skepticism gone mad", I say! People always think that it's "healthy"
to be skeptical, but I think NOT. A little skepticism goes a long way
on occasion, but people here definitely have what I consider "unhealthy
skepticism". It definitely does more harm to them than good. And its
even worse in places where they are more educated in the field of audio
science. Shuddering to think about...

I agree there's far too much skepticism. It's become an ideology.
People seem to believe they're not being realistic unless they're
being skeptical. There's a science of "blackwashing" afoot; we seem to
need to debunk everything. It's a kind of sickness almost.

As for posts like George's, I agree George could have more to say
along more intelligent lines, but he's apparently decided RAO is more
fun as a playground than a lecture room, and I can understand that
too.

So can I, since I did what George is doing now, before George ever did
it. Although I did it with far more style, creativity and "panache". 8
straight years of doing this every day, and nothing -but- the same
mindless drivel, that I don't really get. As I've always said, for
people like George and Arny, RAO is a security blanket. It's the
touchstone they feel comfortable going to every day. Kinda like the way
cats are. Once they get accustomed to their environment and their
routine, they do not like it when it is changed. I think thats part of
what's behind George's hostility toward me, and the hostile reactions I
managed to provoke immediately, upon my presence on the group.

But keep trying with your serious discussion. One day George
might just surprise you. (Then again, maybe not).

He hasn't surprised me in eight years, and quite frankly, life's too
short for me to stay here for much longer in order to wait in hope for
an intelligent or even halfway mature discussion from "Shovels", that
might actually be on topic for this group's charter.

Good one. Do you think he'd mind if I steal that bit? You know, I'm
always remembering the parables of the Good Book and thinking to myself
"What would Jesus do?". And whenever I do, I swear I hear his voice
talking to me. (It has a very angelic lilt, with a slight Italian
accent on the consonants, for some reason). Whenever I find myself at a
moral impasse on account of all the lies that people write about me
here, and I don't know how best to deal with that, I hear the voice of
Jesus saying.... "Lie back. If they deliberately offend you, insult
them. If they are not deliberately offending you, but offending you
nevertheless, insult them anyway. If they insult you, attack them. If
they nudge you with their elbows, kick them in the teeth. If they send
one of yours to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue".
("Hmmm... or was that a Scottish accent perhaps?"...).

In any accent, somehow this doesn't sound like Jesus. Did you ask for
proof of identity? It could be the opposition.

Well he shpoke with a bit of a Shcottish accent, but I carded him and
yea, it was Jesus alright. Crystal blue eyes, flowing white robe, that
unmistakable "holier-than-thou" attitude...

Funny that.

All prophets are bound to suffer the ignorance of fools <sigh>. Jesus
would have known what I'm talking about.... I've suffered the virtual
version of crucifixion at the hands of the non-believers who wish to
kill the messenger for the message of truth and peace that he brings to
the unwashed masses.... and I've the stigmata to prove it. But as
Jesus suffered for the sins of man, so too must Shippy suffer for the
sins of audiophiles.

I won't make the obvious comment about Messianic delusions. I'll just
assume you're feeling a little sorry for yourself and free thinking.

Okay. And I'll just assume you don't have a very well developed sense
of humour...;-)

Sorry. Missed the irony.

....I'm not a permanent fixture here, like you and the rest of the
Pitchfork Gang. Nor do I plan to be.

Well, I asked someone on RAO once before, "Are you going to Jerusalem
to be crucified?" It might even have been you.

Been there, done that.

And what was your three days in Hell like? I want a full account,
remember.

It was more like 2 months in Hell actually, but a Hell featuring the
devil I know. As well, a Hell that really made me laugh on many, many
occasion. The self-declared "demons" with the pitchforks turned out to
be far less scarier and evil than they thought they were. And their
"pitchforks" were merely toothpicks that tickled me. Even in Hell,
Jesus is untouchable.

Subtle and clever, but I suspect the pitchforks were a little sharper
than toothpicks, and that you've laughed a little less than you claim.
Good to keep a stiff upper lip though. Very British.



.

Loading