Re: Q. Does anyone have anything but LIES to say here?



paul packer wrote:

On 21 Apr 2006 01:09:37 -0700, goood@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Bravo. Seeing someone write something halfway meaningful makes a
refreshing change from the usual dumb one-liner quips like you get from
"Shovels" et al., that bore the hell out of me. Nevertheless, I must
say I was VERY tempted to "jive-ify" your post,

Unfamiliar with this term Please explain.


Unfamiliar wid dis term Please 'esplain. 'S coo', bro.

and leave you hanging....

You assume a lot, to assume I'd be hanging on your response.

And yet...here you are... That's not an assumption, that's a fact.

Experimentation is not for everyone. However, I will argue that it's
not just necessary for unconventional audio products, its also
necessary for conventional audio products. I assume for example, you
have speakers in your audio system.

Nope. I use headphones exclusively. Have done since the early 70s.
Wouldn't go back to speakers for quids.

What, do you live across from your parent's bedroom?

Well, I have two black components. They go together. And I have two
silver components. They go together. Yep, I'd say that's about right.

But in no way, shape or form does this make you an
"audiophile".

I'm shattered.

Don't be. Most people here fall under the same category.


You don't find yourself listening to the sound before the music, the
bass and treble before the flute and fiddle, as it were? Because I do.
I've always found "audio", whilst clarifying the music for me, has
always been a bit of a hindrance to its enjoyment.

It's the opposite. In its post-tweaked state, when I am busy writing
messages on RAO and the stereo is playing a good song, I often have to
stop what I'm doing, go to the couch and get swallowed up by the sound.
It's very inviting, it's very enjoyable. So much, that at a certain
point, it becomes difficult to test, because I can't help getting into
the music, and forgetting to concentrate objectively on it, to
determine what has changed. BTW, I do not listen to "bass and treble"
when I'm evaluating music reproduction.... I'm WAY beyond that.

I kind of envy
those people who can hum away delightedly to a table radio and never
notice anything's missing, even the day after a trip to the concert
hall. I even envy Arnie and co in that sense, in their calm certainty
that all amps and CD players ('operating correctly" of course) sound
the same. What distraction this must remove from their listening
experience, even if their systems do sound like table radios.

I understand the point, but I don't ever want to be ignorant, because
I'd rather have truth than bliss. I know too much already about audio,
to pretend none of it exists, none of it matters. So I'll never be an
ignorant putz like Arny/Arnold Kruger/Krueger, and thank the good Lord
for that. If I can get reams of enjoyment out of a 1" mp3 player, I can
get enjoyment out of a table radio as well. I'm not one of those
audiophiles that do not even buy records if the recording sucks. Music
has priority, not sound.

True, some things require more fuss than others. The L-shape for
example, morphic messages or the 5-pinhole tweak. They require "fine
tuning", to determine where they are best applied to be of full
benefit. But other things, like the cream electret you mentioned, are
pretty much "fuss free", IMO. You unscrew the jar, you apply the cream
to hifi gear or cd's, and once done, that's it. I'd say the stuff is
better in certain locations than others, but you just need to know a
general rule of where its best applied, no problems there. You don't
have to experiment with it, it will always be of benefit. Where does it
end? Well, that's up to you decide. Alternative audio isn't heroin, you
know.

I'm not sure about that. Anything that tends to cause people to obsess
is heroin in that sense.

People obsess about all kinds of things (e.g. Morein & Middus & Walt
are all three totally obsessed about me). But it isn't the device
itself, ie. the cream electret, that causes people to obsess. The
audiophile friend I talked about in my message where I described a test
is not at all obsessive about audio, as I mentioned in the post. He
didn't tell me "Where can I get that cream stuff, gotta have it!!". And
I've never seen him fuss over anything with his audio gear, which is
nevertheless, a better quality hifi kit than mine, overall.

Maybe hi-fi attracts obsessive people, I
don't know, but I remember a friend back in the 70s buying a B&O
turntable simple because one can't fiddle with B&O turntables, at
least without ruining them. He couldn't help himself, you see, except
maybe by having his wife tie his hands behind his back, and I knew
just how he felt. How would he have gone with Belt products, do you
think?

Belt products are not for the perpetually horsewhipped, I don't
imagine. If his wife doesn't allow him enough time to himself to adjust
his tonearm, he probably has to time his trips to the bathroom as well,
and so, I don't see where he'd have the time, myself. Even if I was in
that situation, I'd still rather avoid that B&O yuppy crap, which I
always hated. Even my Rega P2, which I am not fond of, would have been
a better solution. No muss, no fuss, still somehow manages to sound
better than a B&O.

You could say for example, "I will stop at $40" (the cream
electret costs about 20 pounds, I think). Then you open the jar, apply
the entire thing at once to various parts of your system, the plumbing,
the hot water tank, a few mirrors, some of your favorite cd's.... then
once its gone, you stop and you're done with it.

You think?

I said you "could". I didn't say you "would". Audiophiles do upgrade
their systems on occasion, that's not unheard of. Are they always
fiddling with one or another part of their system, simply because
they've upgraded it once? That's not so. Changes are usually done on
occasion.

Nope. Fella's only apparently satisfied for now, or when he made that
post. But thoughts will creep in, I'll guarantee it.

Don't be an arrogant jackass. You don't say "nope" when you have no way
of knowing about anything you're talking about, nor do you say "I'll
guarantee it", as though that's supposed to mean something? Am I to
expect money coming my way if you're wrong? You can barely speak for
yourself, so you ought not to be speaking for others. Me, I was just
telling you what he already said.

It's the curse of the human mind to continually seek just that bit
better and better, until one day you take a CD out of the rack and
think, "I've never actually listened to this other than for testing a
tweak or adjustment. I've never actually heard it as music rather than
sound." But by then you're turning 60 and your hearing's shot to
pieces.

....and worse than that, you're Australian and you live in Australia. I
know, terrible fate it must be. I guess by your reckoning, people
should never try to improve their audio systems because once they
do.... oooh, the slippery slope that will lead them toward... they'll
be "tweakaholics" for life, and will never enjoy music again. Funny,
you started all this fairly reasonably... There's been many times I've
looked at a CD that I've rarely played and found that I've outgrown its
type of music. So you move on.

Here's a thought, Mr. Sound: why don't you tell us about every tweak
you've got in your system and the improvements they've made, and we'll
decide if we want to follow your lead. And if you're not a Belt
salesman, better tell us how much it all cost as well.

Don't be a silly twit. Belt doesn't have any "salesman". As far as I
have ever seen of this, the entire Belt sales force comprises his wife.

Spokesman then. Advocate. Whatever.

I'm not a "spokesman" for Belt any more than Morein is a "spokesman"
for Near speakers or Shovels is a "spokesman" for Rotel amps. Don't you
people have any idea what this newsgroup was founded for to begin with?

I can understand why Belt don't advertise. The greatest PR firm in the
world couldn't legitimise these products in the public mind.

Absolutely. If the sheer, freaking paranoid hysteria and hostility over
the products and tweaks here is anything to go by.

I'm not going to describe for you every tweak I have in my system, and
what each sounds like. Are you kidding me?! You have no idea of all
that comprises of, and this post is already 65 times too long for you
and the average RAO citizen to read.

Gratuitous insult noted. But hey, we're used to it.

Sorry, i wasn't trying to insult anyone. I was trying to be honest. You
should try it sometime, its not as scary as you might have thought.

Many of the tweaks that I've applied to this system, I can't tell you
about. Well I could, but I don't want to. In doing so, I would be
revealing many of my best exclusive "Beltish" tweaks that I came up
with. And I would never do such a thing, because I feel it would be
like a reward to a group that has been extremely hostile and malicious
toward me from day one, extremely closed-minded, and does not deserve
it.

Yep, that's us.

Truth be told, I never thought you people deserved -any- of my tweaks,
including the first one. But then, I didn't really put them up for the
benefit of RAOers anyway.

with the speaker drivers and x-over, along with all the wiring and
cabling, my watch, my kitchen cutlery, my pictures, my special red x
pens... and of course, I also froze my holy water. I added positive
"morphic messages" with the red x pen, all over the equipment, needless

Holy water?

Oh, you missed that one? That was tweak no. 6: "Amazing FREE Audio
Tweak #6! For Advanced Audiophiles Only!"

That's quite a small example of some of the things that was done to my
modest system. But you said "every tweak in my system" and the sad fact
is, many tweaks were not done to the system at all. For example... I
tweaked every light bulb in the room with a treatment (a product not
unlike cream electret). This made it so that every time the light was
on, which is normally something that worsens the sound, sound got
better. I also treated the rugs and the couch and the curtains and the
walls and some of the furniture and the computer and the pipes in the
bathroom and the dryer plug (no, not the outlet, the plug), and the
kitchen sink pipes, and the toilet, and the mirrors, and the doors, and
the electric meter and the water tank and the toaster cord and the
window blind cord and the corners of the windows... you know, now that
I think about it, I suppose there can be a bit of "fiddle-arsing"
involved, if you can call it that. But the important thing is, you're
always learning something.

I'm not going to touch any of this, but I'd like to see Crazy
Bob....er... Robert Morein's reaction.

.....Which will probably be that I'm a shill for the Plumbing Industry.

Truth to tell, Mr. Sound, I'm
never entirely certain you're not pulling my or someone's leg when you
go into these details. But at least you've given us enough material
for another dozen threads.

That's the important thing. I'm entirely serious about those tweaks,
but your reaction that I'm not is normal for "common people" who labour
under "quaint conventional thinking", and never stray far from "safe
territory" in their "Flatland". People think that I'm a crank but the
truth is, I *really* have to have a lot of patience with people, who
have eons to travel before they catch up with me, but who talk to me as
though they are light years ahead already, and I'm in a parallel
universe or something. And I've exhibited an inordinate amount of
patience, when the circumstances are considered.

I expect there'll be no end of criticism toward me for all that, but I
say, if the option is learning something while improving my sound still
further, or sitting here expending a nova of negative energy to fight
with ghosts with no productive result to ever come of it, I think I
will always prefer the former.

And yet...here you are...

.....I'm not a permanent fixture here, like you and the rest of the
Pitchfork Gang. Nor do I plan to be. Occasional forays into reason are
interesting, but most of these same flames over and over again, prove
to be very boring to me. When that's all that's left, that's when I'll
know to skeedaddle and move on.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: A message to the ignorant pigs of RAO.
    ... upon these wild audio adventures.... ... aspects of the sound). ... tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side. ... I must admit, back at the listening position, I felt a bit weird, ...
    (rec.audio.opinion)
  • Re: A message to the ignorant pigs of RAO.
    ... shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires ... tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side. ... When I said "shapes and symbols" influence our ... I have "rounded off" the sharp corners of all my audio ...
    (rec.audio.opinion)
  • Re: A message to the ignorant pigs of RAO.
    ... shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires ... tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side. ... When I said "shapes and symbols" influence our ... I have "rounded off" the sharp corners of all my audio ...
    (rec.audio.opinion)
  • Re: Time for some humble pie...
    ... and considering the fact that you did make an effort to try my tweak ... improve your audio system. ... (this one sound familiar?) ... not the same adverse energy that the 5-pinhole paper tweak ...
    (rec.audio.opinion)
  • (Not OT) Soul of Sound-Olson
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