Re: I condemn Arny Krueger

Harry Lavo wrote:
"chung" <chunglau@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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normanstrong@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

"paul packer" <packer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:17:12 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net> wrote in message
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Robert Morein said:



Arny does not say anything about audio that makes me
want to leave the "room." But his behavior as a human
being, squandering this public resource called usenet in
the service of his ego, is despicable, and I condemn him
for it.

I approve of this message.

So there you've got it folks:

It's laudible to Squander the public resource called usenet in the
service
of Morein's ego, according to Morein and Middius.

It's laudible to Squander the public resource called usenet in the
service
of Middius' ego, according to Morein and Middius.

Just what the world needs, another hypocrite's mutual admiration
society!


Yes, yes, Arnie, but did you get anything out of the message?


I don't know about Arny, but I got something out of it: There are a few
people that just don't like Arny Krueger and will devote lots of
bandwidth to telling the rest of us.

I happen to like Arny. He's given me lots of good info, corrected my
mistakes, and in general been a good friend. He and I don't agree on
everything. It would be strange if we did.

Others can't seem to get along with him; too bad for them.

Norm Strong

I happen to like Arny, too. I think the service he provides on his website
is exceptional. He tends to get into a lot of pissing contests, and maybe
he is partly responsible for that, but compared to those who made it a
career to attack him, he is much more reasonable, and certainly a lot more
logical and factual. I look at Arny as a great resource. Heck, just the
other day, Harry Lavo depended on Arny to back him up on one of his
"theories" on RAHE, so I think even Harry secretly respected Arny's
technical knowledge and opinions.


My problems with Arny are not with his technical knowledge, which is
substantial. But I do have problems with him on several other counts.

One is the fact that his scientific knowledge has turned into a religion
with him, such that anybody who continues to hold a different view on any
subject becomes an "infidel" to be disparaged. That is not science. It is
religion. (There, I said it...wasn't allowed to on RAHE.) For example,
almost everybody in audio knows that one place a CD is not perfect is in the
high end of the audio range....recording engineers, scientists and engineers
working in the audio field, etc. But not Arny.

Gee, I don't know that. Of course, I can't hear past 20 KHz.

And it appears that what you take as truth in digital audio is often just your belief...so perhaps you should try to get some understanding of the issues first.

He insists the technology
is perfect and that any discussion about the minor faults it does have is
simply not open for discussion.

I think if you can point out the fault in a technically accurate way, we're all ears...

But the world marches on....most audio
professionals now acknowledge that SACD is more convincing in the high end
than 44.1/16 bit redbook (no matter what else they feel about its
practicality or its place in a future audio marketplace), but Arny has dug
himself such a deep hole that he cannot allow that possibility lest he
destroy his "religion".

Arny believes that redbook CD is audibly transparent. He has at least some evidence to back it up. Why are you so upset because that is his position and his preference? Can you prove him wrong?




The second important issue I have with Arny is that he is fundamentally
dishonest. He distorts and twists information to set up strawmen, and
attacks, attacks, attacks. Nor does he have to be attacked first, as the
episode here with Jenn clearly shows.

I fail to see his dishonesty. I see that both sides are not listening. If there is any intellectual dishonesty, I see that from both sides. And not in equal amounts.

All one has to do is stand firm in
one's own beliefs...first your will get intellectual fraud via stawmen, then
ad hominem attach, then outright paranoid-like fantasizing of the opponent,
and after that some continuing mix of all of the preceding.

Come on, Harry. Even you should see that there is a lot more ad hominem attack targeting Arny than at anybody else.

Thus whatever
technical information Arny wishes to impart (and I do believe he has a
misplaced but fundamentally decent wish to "teach") is completely undermined
by his behavior.

It does not stop you from using him as a source when the right occasion arises, however...

And it doesn't take a psychologist to predict what happens
in return.

I see several frequent posters here in need of psychological help.


Finally, a third but less important issue I have with Arny is with the base
from which he pronounces. I don't hold against him that he lives within
modest means. I do too at this point in my life. But I believe that part
of Arny's anti-high-end stance is economic...and find it pretty hypocritical
to disaparage high-end gear without ever being in a position to own or
experience any long term in ones own system.

That's just your belief. Argue the point in a factual manner. Show how well high-end really works. Provide evidence.

When one is looking skyward
from the ground, it is hard to see what is at the top of the skyscraper.
And without the persepective of every having been up there, it is difficult
to make reasoned judgements. Call it a parochial grounds-eye view. The
most recent example: Arny started posting on RAP when he started recording
the church choir, he amassed a collection of "under $200" microphones, and
then self-proclaimed himself fully professional, and implied that with with
his recording skill his $200 microphones didn't matter. He was quickly
taken down a notch by the real professionals posting on RAP. For another
example, Arny railed against me and my recommendation in favor of SACD for
about two years, then quietly went out and bought the low end model when
"pressured" by a bit of ridicule. That hasn't kept him from continuing to
disparage SACD despite never having heard in his own environment a really
good SACD player....because "he can't hear a difference". By itself, this
third flaw wouldn't be crippling...but as it is interwoven with and feeds
into Arny's two other flaws, it becomes an object of derision and scorn on
the part of his self-generated nemeses.



Not that Harry would

admit it, of course.


I just did. And not the first time.

So, on record, Harry Lavo respects Arny's technical knowledge and opinion. Great, progress has been made. So why are you taking his position on microphones and SACD so personally? Is it because you can't argue on a factual level against his position? It seems what Arny said about those things are much milder than some of your theories that you've been waving around at RAHE. Long-term mondadic testing, anyone?





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