Re: The honest truth about stereo


"Jenn" <jennconducts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jennconducts-2DA19D.08550424012006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> In article <mF9Bf.4320$rH5.2033@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> <nyob123@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" <jennconducts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:jennconducts-06BF86.18032719012006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > In article <UbQzf.10080$ZA2.5228@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
>> > <nyob123@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" <jennconducts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> news:jennconducts-07C2B5.08230219012006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > In article <WOKdnZqBEu6G8VPeRVn-jA@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
>> >> > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Jenn" <jennconducts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:jennconducts-6CF78C.07295618012006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> > In article <g7WdnePth59BxFPeRVn-sA@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
>> >> >> > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> "Jenn" <jennconducts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:jennconducts-AE2D02.06594918012006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> ..
>> >> >> >> > In article <of2dnYMOMYU4oFPeRVn-gg@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
>> >> >> >> > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>> >> >> >> >> message
>> >> >> >> >> news:43CDF966.FBC5F961@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > Bret Ludwig wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> In the past few years, serious mono listening has had a
>> >> >> >> >> >> resurgence
>> >> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> sorts in the underground DIY audio world. A few have gone
>> >> >> >> >> >> so
>> >> >> >> >> >> far
>> >> >> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> go over to mono exclusively,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > LMAO !
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > I suppose they also use single driver speakers and SET amps
>> >> >> >> >> > ?
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > I guess it you're of advanced years and fairly deaf, then
>> >> >> >> >> > it's
>> >> >> >> >> > not
>> >> >> >> >> > too
>> >> >> >> >> > much
>> >> >> >> >> > of a compromise ?
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> A common thread in the tubie and vinyl bigot world - reduced
>> >> >> >> >> hearing
>> >> >> >> >> ability
>> >> >> >> >> due to age or occupation. When people start talking about
>> >> >> >> >> vinyl
>> >> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >> free
>> >> >> >> >> of tics and pops, or SET amps that sound sweet, that sorta
>> >> >> >> >> gives
>> >> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> >> all
>> >> >> >> >> away.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > That would be because there is a great deal of vinyl that is
>> >> >> >> > free
>> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> > tics and pops, and that otherwise sound terrific.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Thanks Jen for confessing to being the victim of hearing damage.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I'm not; my hearing is very, very good.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You can't have it both ways, Jen. If LP playback is "tic free"
>> >> >> then
>> >> >> you're
>> >> >> not hearing things that are clearly present.
>> >> >
>> >> > I didn't say that "LP playback is tic free". I said that "a great
>> >> > deal"
>> >> > of it is. Most of the LPs that I've owned since new is free of
>> >> > tics.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > But thanks for admitting that
>> >> >> > your listening biases make you hear things that aren't there.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sorry Jen but its obvious that you don't understand the process of
>> >> >> transcribing LPs to CDs. In the process, one may see tics in the
>> >> >> forms
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> very specific non-musical waves on one's PC screen. Been there,
>> >> >> done
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> many times.
>> >> >
>> >> > Of course I understand that, and it not relevant to this discussion.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> It's not like I have amazingly good hearing. It must be that its
>> >> >> >> just
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> there are so many people who are worse off, at least when they
>> >> >> >> start
>> >> >> >> spinning vinyl.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I've had a goodly amount of purportedly tic-free vinyl
>> >> >> >> demonstrated
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> me.
>> >> >> >> I've never had tic-free vinyl successfully demonstrated to me. I
>> >> >> >> have
>> >> >> >> been
>> >> >> >> amazed at how relatively tic-free some of it was. But, I could
>> >> >> >> still
>> >> >> >> hear
>> >> >> >> tics.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> To me tic-free means free of tics.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There must be some confusion about the meaning of this.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Or, the vinyl bigots who report "tic free" playback really do hear
>> >> >> well
>> >> >> enough in general, but go into some sort of a trance and fail to
>> >> >> perceive
>> >> >> that which is clearly there to be heard when they listen to their
>> >> >> deified
>> >> >> LPs.
>> >> >
>> >> > You're invited to come over and listen to some tic free vinyl.
>> >> > Look,
>> >> > OF
>> >> > COURSE most vinyl in most people's collections have some tics. I'm
>> >> > just
>> >> > stating that some vinyl doesn't. The main benefit of LP is that in
>> >> > some
>> >> > instances, you can listen to acoustic music where the instruments
>> >> > and
>> >> > voices remind one of the real things, as opposed to the majority of
>> >> > CDs.
>> >>
>> >> Then you either have been buying some of the worst recorded CD's ever
>> >> made,
>> >
>> > Incorrect. I own a variety of CDs from all of the major and most of
>> > the
>> > minor labels. I'll send you the database if you wish to see it.
>> >
>> >> or there is something wrong with either your equipment
>> >
>> > Not likely, as my observations are the same regardless of the
>> > equipment.
>> >
>> >> or your hearing.
>> >
>> > Incorrect.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I have plenty of CD's with acoustic instruments and voices that sound
>> >> real.
>> >>
>> >> If you like Jazz try Mary Stallings: Fine And Mellow, from Clarity
>> >> Recordings The album was recorded direct to digital. I can't recall,
>> >> ever
>> >> hearing any recording that sounded more life like.
>> >> Or Retrun to Wide Open Spaces: Live at The Caravan of Dreams. Amazing
>> >> Records is the label
>> >> Or Mike Garson: The Oxnard Sessions Vol. one from Reference
>> >> Recordings.
>> >> Or virtually anything from the GRP label.
>> >
>> > I don't listen to very much jazz at home, though I enjoy a few of the
>> > releases on Pablo of the Basie Band and the Louie Bellson Band. I am
>> > quite familiar of the Reference sound; great sound for CDs. I was
>> > present for one of their sessions in Dallas. A great group of folks
>> > who
>> > really love music.
>> >>
>> >> Currently I'm listening to The Tommy Flannigan Trio: Jazz Poet, which
>> >> sounds
>> >> like they are playing in my living room.
>> >
>> > I'll give it a try.
>>
>> Whatever you listen to, if you beleive that an LP version is more true to
>> life than a CD of the same work, there is something wrong somewhere.
>> Even
>> assuming that the LP did not have any compression, it would still pale in
>> reality to a CD of the same recording, starting frst with the abscence of
>> surface noise and speed accuracy, and then with the dynamics.
>
> What's wrong with the vast majority of CDs, to my ears vis-a-vis
> acoustic music, starts at the extremes of ensemble size, particularly
> when upper strings are involved; solo voice and large ensembles
> performing music that contains complex textures are a real problem,
> compared to good LPs. I don't know why this is so, but to my ears it IS
> so. Speed accuracy? I haven't heard a TT with speed accuracy in many
> years.

Then we have the makings of what might be a very revealing test.

Have an ensemble play something live and have it recorded to CD.
Compare the live performance to the recorded one.

Of course for the above experiment a DAT player would work as well, and
would give you the ability to monitor the live vs. recorded sound.

One of the recordings I mentioned was a direct to digital one of Mary
Stallings. As I understand it, Direct to Digital would mean there was
minimal tweaking of the recording by any engineer.
I think this would give you the best idea of what digital recording is
capable of.
Does the place where you work have a DAT machine?

Seems to me that all your complaints about CD vs. LP are based on something
other than the actual accuracy of the recording.


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