Re: Is Nob Really Dr. Joseph Goebbels?


"Ruud Broens" <broensr@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:43cd9229$0$99214$dbd41001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> <nyob123@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:APWyf.8377$ZA2.1760@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> :
> : "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" <artyguy04@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
> message
> : news:1137452532.172286.144950@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> : > From: <nyob...@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> : > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:44:07 GMT
> : >
> : >>Right, and the New Yourk Times is your idea of intellectually honest,
> and
> : >>Teddy Kennedy is qualified to ask somebody about the morality.
> : >
> : > And the best nob can do is a strawman.
> : >
> : > Set, game, match.
> : >
> : I"m tired.
> :
> : The point that is left is that there are many credible scinetists and
> : University researchers that don't agree about GW being man made.
> : It may very likely be nothing more than a normal weather pattern.
> ..............
>
> You don't seem to get what i told you about the net influx of heat, that
> is
> causing the _heating up_ ; weather is responsive, the solar energy is
> the driving force.
> suppose for a moment the earth was a solid object, without atmosphere,
> then an increase in temperature of 6 degrees centigrade would increase
> the radiated heat by about 10 %, so obviously any imbalance will settle
> at a new equilibrium - that's just as with any object you heat up at home.
>
> the real situation is somewhat more complicated;-)
> on the day-side, the albedo, reflectivity index, determines how much of
> the incoming solar energy is reflected, on the night-side, heat is
> radiated
> according to surface temperature.. but wait, there's the atmosphere !
> this reduces the heat radiated back into space and together with earth's
> rotation and oceans creates the weather patterns.
>
> the different gases that make up the atmosphere are part of a chemical
> balance with the gases chemically bound in soil, physically dissolved
> in the oceans, etc. higher temperatures shift these equations to the
> gaseous state, leading to increased atmospheric pressure and more
> reduction in radiated heat - positive feedback !
> but wait .. luckily, this planet is filled with living matter, altering
> the
> picture once more. eg. vegetation takes on a different colour when
> temperatures rise, changing the reflectivity. man made activity, such as
> agriculture, urbanisation, emission of various gases change the balance.
> bacteria, insects, other lifeforms partake in several balances.
> ocean currents, wind, clouds redistribute heat.
>
> any reasonable model thus needs more than a few dozen parameters
> to 'get it right'
>
>
> : Considering how little we acutally contribute as a percentage of the
> total
> : CO2, it's possible that we are having no effect at all.
> :
> Massive amounts of methane are leaking away at pump stations,
> something like 5 % of total NG distributed, CH4 is a 'greenhouse gas'
> Then again, a billion tons a year are produced by bacterial fermentation
> in mud in rivers, oceans, estuaries, swamps.
> Some 50 times the amount of atmospheric CO2 is dissolved in the
> oceans. Massive amounts of nitrogen are bound as nitrates in the sea.
>
> Etc., etc., it's exeedingly complex, no single discipline can claim
> it's vision to give the real resultant picture of all these systems.
>
> What matters not so much is the absolute level of temperature or CO2
> content in the atmosphere, as these have been all over the map in the
> past,
> it is the _unprecedented_ rate of change that may spell trouble,
> as there may not be sufficient feedback regulation , that is, the
> system that took millions of years to evolve is nudged outside it's
> correctable range (in the same sense that a buffer solution cannot cope
> with _any_ level of disturbance, or say an amplifier that is clipping
> cannot be corrected by feedback :)
> This rate of change *does* seem to be indicating man made influences!
>
Unless it's simply the fact that ground measurements in many places are
unrealiable, or that the sun is burning differently and causing the
fluctuations.
>
> : Another point to consider is that the history of fuel is for it to get
> more
> : efficient and cleaner. Those using the the worst fuel are the poorest.
> : Instead of punishing the U.S. and those other countries that are
> Industrial
> : giants, why not get the poorer countries to a place where they cna use
> the
> : same type of fuels and get the same sort of efficiency as we do?
> Bringing
> : the poorer countries, using the dirtiest fuels up to out level raises
> : everybody and reduces the CO2 without punishment to anybody.
> :
>
>


.

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