Re: Y&R Billy?

Shirl:
But not ALL doors that are left ajar are done so with the intent that
they will ALL be opened and pursued, even decades later!

MarkH:
But, as you know, sometimes that left him open to the criticism that
he hadn't "seen something through". The fact that people STILL
wonder if either Michael or Phyllis committed murder years ago...
the fact that people DID wonder (I know you didn't) about that diner
scene with Brad all those years ago....those feel to many viewers
like "unfinished threads"...they detracted from the "finished" feel
of the work.

There are *some* "doors left open" that bugged some viewers, yes. But
IMO, leaving *some* doors open doesn't detract from the overall feel
of the work than the current over-used practice of basing an entire
story on a RIDICULOUS premise and then having characters go brain-dead
in order to keep it flying while viewers have to apply gobs of
suspension of disbelief.

THAT, to me, is FAR more detrimental to the show than leaving a door
ajar.

And again, leaving SOME doors ajar is realistic -- most of us, when
thinking back on our own lives, can think of doors that we too left
half open without entering. We'll never know how differently our lives
might have been if we'd opened some of those doors and entered, and we
sometimes *do* have an "unfinished" feel about things we didn't
explore; but not all of us spend gobs of time dwelling on paths we
DIDN'T take.

That's just life! It would be impossible to write GOOD soap stories
that explored and/or closed EVERY door. What adds interest in stories
as in real life *is* having many open doors and figuring out which
ones to explore and which to leave alone. We don't -- and really can't
-- enter EVERY one.

The master is long gone. So, what are his successors to do. I argue
that when they write stories that are history based, but move forward,
they enrich the show. They make it a show that seems rooted in its'
past.

I argue that, too. But "rooted" in its past and STUCK in its past are
two different things.

Now, we'll both agree that the Reliquary story was horrible, and
ended horribly. But the START of that story...well, that was
something quite different.

The idea of making home loans affordable to everyone may have started
out well too, but it surely hasn't ended up well. We don't consider it
a benefit if it turned out so poorly.Ditto on soaps -- once a soap
story is done, its measure of benefit or detriment to the show is
derived from the WHOLE story. A story that had a great beginning isn't
a benefit to the show if it ended horribly, and since TPTB **do** have
*some* control over those outcomes, it's even more of a detriment to
waste great beginnings to dreadfully inept middles and endings.

Sara Bibel shed some light on this a while back, when she
said that it WASN'T SUPPOSED to be a Nazi story. That
initial newspaper article that so intrigued me (family murdered
in Parma) was supposed to be a mob storyline....something
that would have been much more plausible, and that would
also have kept Brad heroic. Alas, one weekend (literally!)
LML saw a documentary on Holocaust stolen art, remembered
Diamont was Jewish...and the whole implausible mess started.

Yeap. A few of us who were criticized for being "too negative" were
saying even then that giving the newbie THAT much power THAT early was
going to come back to bite them. We argued then, and adopted the
"we'll just have to wait and see" attitude.

My point is this...filling in Brad was both a good nod to history,
IMO...and the resulting story COULD HAVE BEEN the "something
new" you talk about.

Yes, ITA with that, and it wasn't *giving Brad a past* that I so
strongly objected to, and I have emphasized that from the start -- it
was that the past given to him was ***NOT*** "rooted in ANY history"
that we SAW over the prior 20 years, NOT ANY! The very basic premise
that he had been "hiding and running" all his life when we saw him
perfectly calm and photo-in-the-newspaper, high-profile all those
years was ludicrous.

As for other threads of the past:

- bringing back Adam
- bringing back Chloe/Kate
- reviving Marge and Clint...
[snipped the details]

I'm not seeing the linking of current stories to old ones to be bad at
all.

Reviving Marge and Clint is, IMO, a STUPID move. That story was based
on an unbelievably far-fetched premise 20 years ago (give/take) and
isn't any more believable today. That is bad, IMO. Feature 80+ year
old Jeanne Cooper, but not by reviving a stupid story...WRITE
SOMETHING NEW and compelling for her. It can still be rooted in
history, but for cryin' out loud, make it rooted in BELIEVABLE
history.

Bringing back Adam and Chloe/Kate are not bad moves ...
But you left out ...
- bringing us Cane and bringing back history to UNDO it (ridiculously
unbelievable "baby swap" AND the resulting invalidation of YEARS of
history that was based on the element that you undo ... BAD-BAD-BAD).
- bringing back Ashley (good for an Abbott to return) for the purpose
of hooking up with Victor AGAIN ... BAD-BAD-BAD, other than the fact
that these two miserable individuals deserve each other
- bringing back Jerry Douglas as Alistair ... John Abbott is DEAD, and
lookalikes don't fix those kinds of dreadful mistakes
- bringing back Ted Shackleford as the evil twin ('nuff said) -- how
about giving some thought to who you kill off instead of continually
bringing back lookalikes/twins? BAD-BAD-BAD

There is also the most delightfuly fresh band of youngsters (Amber,
Kevin, Jana, Daniel), who are engaged in totally fresh capers--the
likes of which Y&R has never seen before. I can't say how much I have
been enjoying that.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along? Fresh capers, exactly. It
isn't the act of bringing a character from history back that is
necessarily the problem, it's bringing them back AND THEN UNDOING/
REWRITING or otherwise KEEPING THEM, and the show, STUCK in that
history.

You're misconstruing/over-generalizing my objection ...
I NEVER SAID that *maintaining a connection* to history was bad. I
completely agree that since soaps DO have such long histories, some
elements from those histories SHOULD be incorporated into current
stories. Absolutely.

What I object to is reaching back decades to REPEATEDLY bring
historical elements forward to undo/rewrite them, or to keep
characters and stories STUCK in the old story. Bring the tie-in to
history forward (i.e., Chloe/Kate), leave it at that and let the
character move ahead with "fresh capers".

It isn't "fun" in real life, either, when someone is stuck in history
and can't or won't move forward without CONSTANTLY falling back and
dwelling on old history ... it happens occasionally, sure, but if
every other person in your life were doing that, it would get old
FAST. That, IMO, is what Y&R feels like right now ... it's wonderful
that there is a connection to history, but what they're DOING with
that history is ... not wonderful.

But even in long form story, it is okay to look back, to remember how
we got here....and to carry forward stories we (intentionally) never
ended in the past.

Again, remembering how we got here is not the objection. Making a
repetitive practice of carrying THIS MANY stories THAT WERE ended
forward to keep Y&R STUCK in them isn't "okay", IMO. It is dragging
the show down, down, down.

Shirl
.

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