Re: OT Find Your Candidate

Shirl:
And please don't try to convince me that because
they work so cheap, our economy "needs" them! What a crock.

Dana Carpender <dcarpend@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. Only 23% or so of farm workers are American, so it's
a huge majority who are immigrants, mostly from Mexico. The average pay
is $10-12K/year, and average working hours are 42 per week, of hard
physical labor. 42x52(weeks)=2184 hours per year. 10,000 divided by
2184=$4.58 per hour. 12,000 divided by 2184= $5.49/hour, still below
minimum wage.

Twenty-five years ago, day laborers were making approximately $4.00/hr,
which was still cheaper than putting someone on the payroll legally, so
yes, they were in demand. Used to be that people would stop to hire them
and tell them what THEY would pay; today, people stop to hire them and
THEY set the price, and with most, it's $12/hr, give or take a dollar or
two. No, there are no "benefits," nor should there be; if they want
"benefits", they can become citizens and pay taxes like the rest of us
(my opinion).

Of course, the vast majority get no benefits, including
health care. They work outside, often in harsh weather conditions
(consider the inland valleys of California and the deserts of Arizona,)
with little or no attention paid to worker safety. Hell, they're lucky
if they get enough clean water to drink.

How many Americans do you know who would be willing to do a long, hot
day's physical labor five days a week, fifty two weeks a year ('cause it
seems unlikely these folks can afford vacation time) for less than
minimum wage, in horrible conditions?

If the conditions are so horrible, why do they scramble into the country
for those jobs?

And please tell me how they can afford to show up to those horrible
conditions in brand new trucks? How their kids can afford cellphones and
iPods, and how can mom afford to stay home and crank out babies at the
rate of one per year? Oh yeah...maybe it's partially because they live
12 to 20 in a one- or two-bedroom apartment and they've figured out how
to work the American system so that they pay nothing for health care and
get public assistance for food, beer, boom boxes, etc.

There is *no question* that getting rid of illegals would *change* the
American economy. If we assume that we could find people to do this
work for minimum wage -- a big "if" -- it would increase the cost *per
worker* by $2000-$4000 per year. Insist that they all get at least
minimal health insurance through their jobs -- after all, we're talking
full-time jobs here -- we're talking, what, at *least* another $10,000
per year per worker? Very likely more than that. That's more than
doubling labor costs for the agricultural industry.

Yeah... how in the world did the agricultural industry ever manage to
make any money before the massive invasion of poor immigrants who are
FORCED to work in such horrible conditions for so little money? Puhleeze.

If you think you wouldn't pay more for produce with numbers like that,
you're delusional.

And if you think cutting off all the services to people who (a) pay
NOTHING in, and (b) have managed to figure out how to USE and screw
American systems wouldn't make a big difference, you're delusional, too.

So produce may cost more. But how much in tax dollars paid by equally
hard-working American citizens would we NOT be spending in health care,
"public assistance" and other programs for people who contribute
NOTHING? It's HARDLY an even exchange.

If, as I suspect, it would take more than minimum
wage to get enough Americans to do stoop labor to keep
farm production at current levels, you're going to be paying
even more.

Again, how in the world did the farm industry manage to produce and
market enough food BEFORE it became so completely dependent (according
to you) on immigrants?

That's just one industry, but it's a vital one. Restaurant meals would
also go way up, if restaurants started paying enough for bus boys,
cleaning crew, and dishwashers to attract American workers, but eating
out is a luxury.

Again, WHO did those jobs BEFORE the invasion of illegal immigrants?
People in high school and college often worked for minimum wage or a
little above as waiters/waitresses, cashiers, bus boys, cleaning crews
and dishwashers. Now our young people have it in their minds that those
jobs are "done by Mexicans" and therefore are beneath them. Many of our
young kids don't have much of a work ethic anymore.

The invasion has changed a lot, and certainly not all of it has been for
the better. CITIZENS who worked hard all their lives to finally buy a
home have had property values decline dramatically in areas that have
been literally TAKEN OVER. Do you think they'll EVER be able to sell
those homes, with the way those neighborhoods look now, for as much or
more than what they paid? Cities that were once beautiful now look like
slums. How do you teach your kids to respect other cultures when they
see these people throwing beer bottles on your property, leaving dirty
diapers on your front lawn, defecating in your flower beds and urinating
on the car parked in your driveway? How do you tell someone who doesn't
speak English that bringing a shopping bag and stripping the fruit trees
in YOUR front yard is STEALING? Do you think the police care? Does
anybody care?

I don't guess you're interested in the hardships -- economic or
otherwise -- suffered by hard-working AMERICANS who have been paying
taxes all their lives and whose property is now worth next to nothing
and whose quality of life has been so negatively changed. People who
don't live in those areas and who haven't been directly affected in this
destructive way are quick to take up for the poor immigrants who CHOOSE
to come here illegally.

Shirl
.

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