Re: OT ~ New York Times: Clinton era may be coming to an end...

On Fri, 9 May 2008 21:25:04 -0700 (PDT), Cory
<my_wheel_life@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 9, 9:00=A0pm, XXXkar...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Karen) wrote:

As far as these "supe-rdelagates" this race is still too close to call
or to decide by a handful of people who are specially chosen. =A0I
resent having a small group of people be the ones who decide an
election this important.

This is what I'm sayin', too. I HOPE, after this election, that the
DNC will re-vamp the nomination process and get rid of the so-called
super-delegates once and for all.

The superdelegate system was devised after McGovern and Carter got
nominated. The party wants some control over who it nominates. I
can't blame them. They are stuck with the nominee, after all. A bad
choice at the top can doom every candidate down the ticket.

Having said that, I believe that this is the first nomination (out of
HOW MANY nominating conventions by the Democratic Party??) where super-
delegates have ever been as serious an issue as they've been, too.

I believe it made the difference between Mondale and Gary Hart in
1984. We just did not have cable news then, or the internet. I read
the newspaper and TIME but don't remember any of that discussed.

And what about the two states whose primaries were voided? =A0Don't they
belong to the United States anymore? =A0Why shouldn't they be
represented, and why are they being punished because the democratic
powers-that-be messed up?

Karen

Because they blatantly flouted the rules and expressed wishes of the
party. That said, Yes... I ABSOLUTELY believe that those two
primaries should count.

--- Cory

A lot of planning went into setting up primary season so that states
wouldn't all try to be first. The first four states to vote or caucus
came from different regions to try to get a fair cross section of the
electorate.

In my opinion, the votes taken in January shouild not count. If you
tell voters that an election doesn't count, they are entitled to rely
on it. Had the Democrats done as the Republicans and halved the
number of delegates, I think this mess could have been avoided.

In Michigan, the candidates except Clinton and Kusinich took their
names off the ballot. Clinton left her name on, saying it did not
matter since the votes would not count. Many Democrats crossed over
and voted in the Republican primary. Clinton wants to count the votes
for her, but give no delegates to Obama,although 45% of the votes were
for "not Clinton." Obama has proposed dividing the delegates with
Hillary receiving 10 more than he does, but Clinton has refused.

Governor Grantham is a major Clinton supporter, and she pushed the
early primary. She wanted the campaign money for her state, and
thought that even if it was just a beauty contest, she could deliver a
symbolic victory for Clinton. They were assuming Clinton would win
when these decisions were made.

In Florida, by law if your name is not on the primary ballot, you
can't be on the general election ballot. That is why the candidates
names were on the ballot.

There was also a property tax measure on the ballot, and many land
owners voted on that issue, while renters did not care, so did not
vote.

Clinton had the name recognition advantage in Florida, and that is why
she prevailed in this late January election. She had also had some
fundraisers which were covered in the local press.

Some people accuse Obama of campaigning there, when what he did was
buy some advertising (on MSNBC, I think) which is carried nationwide,
and could not be screened out of Florida. He got DNC approval
beforehand. He did not have any rallies or town halls in Florida, and
these functions have been very effective in increasing the number of
his votes where ever he goes.

Having a revote in either place had all sorts of complications. The
Democrats in Michigan who voted for a Republican would not be entitled
to vote in a second primary. Michigan had held caucuses in the past,
but Hillary would not agree to this solution, since she doesn't fare
as well as Obama does in caucuses. In Florida, the law changing the
primary date also required a paper trail for votes, so they were
swapping out voting machines, and did not have machines available in
many areas in order to have a revote.

It is a mess. TPTB never thought we could get this far without a
clear front runner, and assumed the victor would allow Michigan and
Florida to be seated and that it would not affect the outcome.

I am sorry for the voters in those states, but bear in mind that when
Alabama had its primary in June 2004, 2000, 1996 and 1992, my vote did
not matter either.

I have faith it will be worked out before the convention.

Oh, and history proves that having a contentious convention assures
electoral defeat. Since the advent of television, conventions have
had to become less entertaining.

MsLiz
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: (NBC) Election fraud
    ... all this talk about Clinton stealing this election (which is ... Dixville Notch residents wait to cast their votes in the New Hampshire ... paperless touch-screen voting machines that, for more than half a decade ...
    (rec.music.artists.springsteen)
  • interesting read from George Will (NBC)
    ... WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton, 60, Illinois native and Arkansas ... most helpful to her, and counting the votes she received in Michigan, ... by forbidding winner-take-all primaries, ... hopes rest on the still-unattached cohort called "Reagan Democrats," ...
    (rec.music.artists.springsteen)
  • Re: Republicans attempt to skew Texas Democratic primary results
    ... voters in Florida and 328,151 Clinton voters in ... Clinton agreed to this at the time. ... If it were a clear win for Obama or Clinton, then ignoring those votes would not matter, and it would enforce party governance. ... Ie let's say if in the end Clinton needs those delegates to win the nomination, superdelegates can decide that since there is no time to re-run those primaries that since Clinton would win the nomination with those votes, that they should throw their votes to her. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • (NBC) Election fraud
    ... Anyway, all this talk about Clinton stealing this election should make republicans stand up and demand both a ban on touch screen machines, and an automatic recount of optical scanned ballots on a random basis in every election which uses them. ... Dixville Notch residents wait to cast their votes in the New Hampshire primary at exactly midnight in the "Ballot Room" of the Balsams Hotel in Dixville Notch on Jan. 8. ...
    (rec.music.artists.springsteen)
  • Re: Hey, Obama -this is an election, not a Madonna Concert !
    ... will either be President Clinton or President McBush. ... This is supposed to be an election, ... the votes, not half of them because it suits the aggressive effort to ...
    (alt.fan.howard-stern)
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