Re: OT:Mickey Mouse Names The Villain

In rec.arts.tv.soaps.abc on Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:54:08 GMT in Msg.#
<4WkNg.10261$bM.6276@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Scott Golden
<gypsyluc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I don't disagree with your assessment at all, except to say that this
isn't just a problem of "today"--it has always existed (the problem may
be magnified today, but it is as old as civilization). In another part
of my post I was expressing concern over what some people might do in
response to this problem.

The problem is much magnified today because we live in a much more complex
world where people are expected to digest & analyze & understand much more
data - and the rapidity with which some of that noise comes can be louder
than the signal, easily. People are people, as always, yes, but in much
different circumstances today.

Yes, I know what you mean, I cannot stand that we have the patriarchal
system & legacy that we do & that we're not moving continually away from
that. Now, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with 'protecting' anyone
- unless you would twist it around to protecting society. I would not. And,
my having opinions about the mix of so-called entertainment & news &
history, has zero to do with protecting some person or persons from
something that they will not protect themselves from. Strike the word
protect entirely & you might have a shot at hearing me.

I don't have any hearing problem.

Perhaps you do not. However, it seems that you do not hear & understand me &
others here at times. I thought to point it out. You dispute it. There's no
need to go round & round over it.

... BTW,
I like how you agreed with me completely at first and then proceeded to
imagine a worst-case scenario where you would completely disagree with me.

That's interesting to me since numerous times discussing with you since we
first met here I have noted how you seem to be disagreeing & then turn
around & appear to agree. Or, alternately how you use a point to prove one
thing you wish to prove but dispute that same point when someone else wishes
to use it to illustrate something they're saying.

Specifically, here & now, I'm not sure what you meant it to be about, but,
as to the general principle, certainly & have seen it in action myself.

But, if you continue to look at criticisms of certain projects or certain
systems - TV as arbiter of fact, for example - in terms of censorship, then,
I can only guess you will continue to not hear what some of us are saying.
I'm against censorship. I'm in favor of responsibility in broadcasting.

I brought up censorship because of some specific statements made by
Aisling in two of her posts, not because of anything that you wrote.

Well, I was speaking more generally than that.

Doesn't anyone take
personal responsibility for anything anymore?

More than half the people I know do, easily. I know of a lifelong addict who
is in my life at some level who never does, never has, and seemingly never
will. I do, my partner does, my friends do, most of the people encountered
in work for us do but some there do not. They are the whiners who always
have someone else to blame, who are endlessly defensive. What does this have
to do with my opinion of irresponsible broadcasting, that too many people
rely on the TV as their main source of news & information, etc., etc.
Nothing if you ask me.

What it has to do with it is that the people who rely on TV as their
main source of news & information need to take personal responsibility
for determining what is true and filtering out what is opinion. I wasn't
talking about your opinion; I agree with your opinion (as I noted above).

To me that is not really pertinent to the issues being discussed here. I
would bemoan the irresponsibility of leadership, while I guess you would
bemoan the lack of realization that they even need to take personal
responsibility in some of our citizenry. And, I would also have to echo you
here, as having some portion of your citizenry uninterested is also as old
as are civilizations with people in them.

It's as if nothing about the audience, the medium & what is known about the
process between them matters to you. If that's your take on it, have at it.
I simply do not agree & that I do not agree doesn't make me some kind of an
unusual bug or bleed over into personal responsibility.

With all due respect, we could come to an understanding (not necessarily
an agreement, but an understanding at least) a lot quicker if you would
ask me questions instead of making conclusions based on your
interpretations of what I wrote.

This also is very interesting as it's what I almost said to you, and often
suggest to people. I think you would get different dialogue here with people
in general if you asked questions, etc.

If I haven't made my position clear
that's one thing; ask me specific questions and I promise to give you
honest specific answers.

I think that anytime I haven't been clear that I have asked you. Most of the
time I think I have understood what you were saying.

In the case of the previous paragraphs I agreed
with almost everything you wrote, EXCEPT for your conclusions as to how
you think I feel about those issues. In the last paragraph I don't agree
with any of it because the whole thing is a statement about what you
think I believe. I _am_ only expressing my opinions (sometime backing
them up with some facts); I'm not trying to antagonize you or stake out
a position that is the polar opposite of your views.

Well, I didn't say that you were - trying to antagonize me or set up as
Polar Opposite Donna (LOL). I only made observations going from what you
write & have written.

But, if I write that it seems as if, or even almost as if, you're
unconcerned with anything about the audience & medium & process & what's
known about it, and you don't think that's accurate, that is as much of an
opportunity for you to clear that up as a direct question. And, I have said
that it SEEMS ... which implies: seems to me. That's not what I think you
believe; it's what I think you're expressing or are coming off as
expressing, it's about perception. And, we all have opportunities to double
check our own realities with our perceptions.

Do you want to have a real debate?

I thought I made it clear that I want to have dialogue, discussion, and that
this is not the place or the process for 'real debate', so, no, I don't.

State your beliefs, I'll state mine,

I do. You have.

and _then_ if you have any questions about where I stand, please ask them.

See above. I think that I have.

--
Donna B : ^> shallotpeel <*> Yahoo Messenger: shallotpeel

"In every nihilist there is a fanatic screaming to get out, and conversely
every fanatic is a potential nihilist." - Peter Berger, American sociologist
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT:Mickey Mouse Names The Villain
    ... what I'm talking about has nothing to do with 'protecting' anyone ... How about saying "I don't think you understood my point; ... What it has to do with it is that the people who rely on TV as their main source of news & information need to take personal responsibility for determining what is true and filtering out what is opinion. ...
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    ... what I'm talking about has nothing to do with 'protecting' anyone ... I'm against censorship. ... to do with my opinion of irresponsible broadcasting, ... What it has to do with it is that the people who rely on TV as their main source of news & information need to take personal responsibility for determining what is true and filtering out what is opinion. ...
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