Re: Italian language in PIAZZA

Thinking about the story, it would be hard to write it with the Italian
characters speaking any kind of English. I think what I might have
done is simply make Fabrizio's English a little better. Not so good
that he can detect Clara's disability -- but then it's pretty hard even
for the audience to detect her disability most of the time.

This would allow Fabrizio to clumsily translate for his family members
who don't speak English, which would give him more to do in those
scenes. Fabrizio as a character faces his own disability in not being
able to express himself except in a language the audience doesn't
understand.

It's a fascinating problem Guettel and Lucas faced here. No obvious
solution.

Since no one answered in the other thread, I'm going to ask again: is
it true, as I think I read somewhere, that PIAZZA originally had a book
by someone else (Alfred Uhry?) which Guettel rejected? And that he
then presented pretty much the completed score to Lucas to write a new
book around?


Sweevil wrote:
I'm so glad you brought that up, Brenda. That exact moment, when she
speaks to the audience in English, blows it for me. It's like an
admission that the Italians-speaking-Italian solution isn't working the
way it's supposed to.

If they'd written the whole show and never needed to do that, I would
have said bravo, a bold choice and very effective. But it isn't so
very effective when the authors are forced to cheat the rules they've
laid down for their own show.

Granted, there's probably no perfect solution to a problem like this.
Any way you go, you're going to hear objections.


lclough wrote:
Sweevil wrote:
What do you all think about Lucas & Guettel's choice to use Italian
dialogue and lyrics for the Italian characters?

I'm of two minds. I understand Guettel's point that he wants the
audience to feel like strangers in a strange land, as the Johnsons do,
and obviously the language barrier is a big part of the plot.

Still, it bugs me. One of the things I love about LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA
is its rejection of the self-referential self-consciousness and
cynicism that have become standard in new musicals, from URINETOWN to
SPAMALOT to WICKED to DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS. Self-mockery, in-jokes,
easy irony and cynicism have become something even the New York Times
complains about in new musicals.

I think PIAZZA is truly forward-looking in its attempt to tell an
emotional story sincerely, without irony, references to other shows, or
the louche cynicism that likes to call itself post-modern. Musicals
have become so self-conscious and self-referential, the only way out of
the hall of mirrors is towards a new sincerity.

My trouble with the show's use of Italian is that it *doesn't* bring us
closer to the story or characters. It builds a wall between the
audience and them. So finally it comes across as post-modern or ironic
because I can never forget that I'm an English-speaking spectator for
whom two English-speaking writers have perversely written scenes and
songs in a foreign language. Or it comes across as a stunt: look at
me, with my fancy upper class education I can even write lyrics in
Italian.

This isn't like throwing in a little foreign language number, like
"Dites Mois" In SOUTH PACIFIC (other examples abound). It's a big part
of the show and for me it becomes a distancing device, the kind Brecht
wrote about, that keeps me from becoming fully involved in the story.

Using what Guettel calls the "old movie" convention of characters
speaking English with an accent requires suspension of disbelief -- but
so does every other element of a stage play. It's not really Florence
in 1953, it's a stage set at Lincoln Center in 2006. These characters
aren't real people, they're played by actors. Etc. Eliminating one
suspension of disbelief element (foreign characters speaking English)
seems to draw extra attention to all the rest.

How do you all feel about this? Does trying to puzzle out what the
Italian characters are saying or singing affect your ability to
"suspend disbelief" and become emotionally involved with the story?

Like I say, I'm of two minds. Writing the Italians in Italian is a
bold choice, daring even, but it doesn't finally work for me. I think
it would be a stronger show if the Italian characters spoke and sang in
accented English, in the old-fashioned way.

(Incidentally, the movies' modern solution to this problem -- having
characters speak a foreign language and providing subtitles -- also
strikes me as more distancing than the older method.)

Clearly each project requires its own solution, since the use of
foreign language-speaking characters differs in different plays and
movies. A small amount of foreign dialogue can be delivered without
explanation, but large amounts are another matter. Would CABARET have
been a better show with the German characters speaking German? I don't
think so. But is this the right solution for this particular show
(PIAZZA)?

What's your feeling?



What do you make of it then, at the beginning of Act 2, when the
woman (Fabrizio's mother? Aunt? Sister?) addresses the audience
in English?

I think that it becomes crucial, even more than usual, to cast
good -actors- for the Italian family. It becomes an exercise in
conveying the meaning with -acting- rather than words. I
noticed that Fabrizio's family had quite different body language
than the Johnsons. They moved like Europeans.

Brenda


--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/

Recent short fiction:
FUTURE WASHINGTON (WSFA Press, October '05)
http://www.futurewashington.com

FIRST HEROES (TOR, May '04)
http://members.aol.com/wenamun/firstheroes.html

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Italian language in PIAZZA
    ... speaks to the audience in English, ... My trouble with the show's use of Italian is that it *doesn't* bring us ... closer to the story or characters. ...
    (rec.arts.theatre.musicals)
  • Re: Italian language in PIAZZA
    ... dialogue and lyrics for the Italian characters? ... Italian is a much more romantic language than English so, ... closer to the story or characters. ... This isn't like throwing in a little foreign language number, ...
    (rec.arts.theatre.musicals)
  • Re: Italian language in PIAZZA
    ... My trouble with the show's use of Italian is that it *doesn't* bring us ... closer to the story or characters. ... This isn't like throwing in a little foreign language number, ... suspension of disbelief element (foreign characters speaking English) ...
    (rec.arts.theatre.musicals)
  • Italian language in PIAZZA
    ... What do you all think about Lucas & Guettel's choice to use Italian ... closer to the story or characters. ... This isn't like throwing in a little foreign language number, ... suspension of disbelief element (foreign characters speaking English) ...
    (rec.arts.theatre.musicals)
  • Re: Italian language in PIAZZA
    ... My trouble with the show's use of Italian is that it *doesn't* bring ... us closer to the story or characters. ... This isn't like throwing in a little foreign language number, ... speaking English) seems to draw extra attention to all the rest. ...
    (rec.arts.theatre.musicals)