Re: Male vs Female viewpoints in SF

In message <gha42g$25dh$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Garrett Wollman <wollman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
In article <o4tLyV+NGHOJFwZm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Jacey Bedford <lookinsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Less than the nominal cost, maybe, but still not affordable for a
low-income family without big loans.

Number One Son graduated from Cambridge (UK) with a first in
Architecture

Stop right there.

No, sorry.

Professional degrees are a whole different kettle
of fish. Schools assume that anyone studying architecture (or
business, law, or medicine) is going to use that qualification to
earn substantially more than the typical undergraduate. So it makes
sense to expect such people to borrow the costs against their much
greater expected future income.

That's a particularly dodgy assumption in the current recession. Architects are being laid off right left and centre as the building industry contracts. Besides, architects with the basic five years of study are still not fully qualified and can only expect a starting salary of $30,000 ish - maybe £20,000 - £25,000 in the UK. Not enough to live in NY or London (where all the big jobs are likely to be) and repay two hefty loans (while still studying for their Part 3 qualification..

Someone who is studying for a B.A. in
English, or a B.S. in Marine Biology, has much more limited income
potential and the financial aid reflects that.

I haven't a clue about business, law or medicine, but I think you need to look at average income of architects. Yes the potential is great - eventually - but it takes a long time to get to that level (if ever). Besides - with architecture this is only the second step - not a funded postgrad programme like his Rome Scholarship is or his PhD (hopefully) will be.

And he already has considerable debt from his undergrad degree which is done on a Student Loan system in the UK.

[tale of expensive architecture grad schools deleted]

And in any case, you can't compare undergraduate and graduate
education. The respective programs and funding sources are completely
different in nature. (In particular, graduate support generally comes
from specific programs -- either research grants and contracts or
endowed scholarships -- which for any school will be much smaller than
the pool of qualified applicants.

Not at this level for architecture students. At least not in the UK.

In the UK the 4th and 5th year of study are postgrad, but not funded - the initial BA being awarded at the end of the third year. (Followed by a year working 'in industry'.) And the 4th & 5th years being a diploma. After that they can do MAs and PhDs etc.

In the USA he actually joined The Cooper Union in the 4th year of their 5 year undergrad programme - amounting to the same thing as the two years of the postgrad diploma course in the UK.

Not sure whether Yale and Harvard would have been the same since we couldn't afford them he had to turn them down..

You don't get on to funded programmes until you start looking at MAs and PhDs which are a completely different pan of chips.

Not sure whether architecture is unique in this. There must be parallels in other professions.

Jacey

--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

.

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