Re: "Ancient Astronauts" in SF

On Jul 16, 5:06 pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
<{$new...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In message
<b385edcb-50d4-4aa8-bc26-ffb9cb861...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
veritas <khogan...@xxxxxxxxx> writes

t is actually not my theory, it is Cambridge University, Stanford
University, and a host of smaller studies of a world wide DNA test done
over a couple of years, and that is the answers they came back with. It
was published in April, 2007, and the fact that we have no DNA
relationship with Neanderthals is fairly well known. I believe there
have been 27 tests done since then, and the results are the same, we
have no DNA relationship.

Actually, it is your theory. It may be derived from a misinterpretation
of a real theory, but it is your theory, and while you may attempt to
pass it off on Cambridge, Stanford, etc., you won't succeed here; people
here know better.

What is well known is

1) Neanderthal mtDNA lies outside the modern human clade.
2) No nuclear DNA of discernable Neanderthal origin has been identified
in modern human populations.

 From this a weak inference is drawn that Neanderthals represent a
separate species, which did not interbreed with anatomically modern man
(Homo sapiens sensu strictu), or if they did interbreed the hybrids were
infertile.

This is a weak inference because the absence of identifiable Neanderthal
DNA could also be a consequence of drift and/or selection. Even if the
lower bound is zero, the figure I saw reported for the upper bound on
the Neanderthal contribution to the human gene pool was quite high.

We do have a DNA relationship to Neanderthals; we, and Neanderthals,
fall into the nested DNA hierarchy of terrestrial life, and Neanderthals
are closer to use than to any living species. It is estimated, based on
the magnitude of the differences, that we and Neanderthals had a common
ancestor roughly 500,000 years ago. (Compared to roughly 5,000,000 years
for humans and chimps.)

We could be charitable and interpret "no DNA relationship" as a failed
attempt to state that Neanderthals are not ancestral to humans, which is
true, for various degrees of certainty, depending on how ancestral is
interpreted. However you then proceed to go further and further off the
rails, and conclude with a claim that humanity is not native to Earth.

(Science fiction authors are allowed to use crackpot ideas in their
works, but a considerable proportion of the readership of SF doesn't
like it when the authors believe their crackpot ideas.)
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Then you are saying that the University of Cambridge, Stanford, Tartu
in Estonia, and Oxford when they say in their report:
"The research confirms the "Out OF Africa" hypothesis that ALL modern
humans stem from a single group of Homo sapiens who emigrated from
Africa 2,000 generations ago and spread throughout Eurasia over
thousands of years. These settlers replaced other early humans (such
as Neanderthals), rather than interbreeding with them." that they do
not know what they are talking about, and are wrong in their
conclusions? I'm sorry, but if I was going to believe anyone, it
would be them over you. I would think most people would believe their
actual testing over your idea of what is "well known. It isn't well
known to the Universities I named, as they did world wide DNA testing
and did the studies. However, what everyone is not getting here is it
is a possibilty that is so. Is it likely? Of course not, it's just a
story I made up in my imagination. But, you can argue about
Neanderthals day and night and some people will say they are, some
people say they are a different species from us. It's like comparing
a Model T with a Porsche. If they ever were related to us, their
skeletons are different, hips,(a ten year old modern human could out
run them, their pelvis' were to wide to run fast), skulls,
intelligence, and we didn't spend 300,000 years fighting and losing to
Giant Cave Bears for the best caves, and the caves we had, we didn't
just sit and knapped at flint around fires for all our existence. The
Neanderthals couldn't even sew! They didn't even have the eye,hand
dexterity to even do that! We wiped them out, and dominated the world
in 47,000 years, and have landed spaceshps on Mars. Which ever one it
is, we left them in the dirt. Our superiority over all the other
creatures may have a different beginning than we know. I'm an
agnostic by the way. My bet is that the Universities years of study
was right and you are wrong. But still remember it is a just a SF
book, and most of it came out of my imagination. I myself do not
regard it as anymore than a story. If I am wrong, I'm wrong. But
some pretty knowledgeable people are beginning to think I might have
guessed right about the Neanderthals. Regards, Ken Hogan
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Researchers begin to decode Neanderthal genome (in the November 17, 2006 issue of Science )
    ... Scientists with the U.S. Department of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the Joint Genome Institute have sequenced genomic DNA from fossilized Neanderthal bones. ... Their results show that the genomes of modern humans and Neanderthals are at least 99.5-percent identical, but despite this genetic similarity, and despite the two species having cohabitated the same geographic region for thousands of years, there is no evidence of any significant crossbreeding between the two. ... “In this study, we have demonstrated that Neanderthal genomic sequences can be recovered using a metagenomic library-based approach, and that specific Neanderthal sequences can be obtained from such libraries.” ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: "Ancient Astronauts" in SF
    ... >was published in April, 2007, and the fact that we have no DNA ... >relationship with Neanderthals is fairly well known. ... Neanderthal mtDNA lies outside the modern human clade. ... We do have a DNA relationship to Neanderthals; ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • V-ati futut cu neandertalii si maimucile, aaaaaaaa ??
    ... Rex Dalton (Nature) ... Contamination of ancient samples may have led to claims that humans ... A groundbreaking analysis of Neanderthal DNA that suggested they ... among Neanderthals and humans in their common European home ground ...
    (soc.culture.romanian)
  • Re: "Ancient Astronauts" in SF
    ... University, and a host of smaller studies of a world wide DNA test done over a couple of years, and that is the answers they came back with. ... It was published in April, 2007, and the fact that we have no DNA relationship with Neanderthals is fairly well known. ... From this a weak inference is drawn that Neanderthals represent a separate species, which did not interbreed with anatomically modern man, or if they did interbreed the hybrids were infertile. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Homo erectus, city dweller and sailor
    ... Royal Athena Ancient Art Gallery, ... DNA studies do not conclude we are. ... other than three to four thousand Neanderthals. ... We allow dangerous animals to ...
    (sci.archaeology)