Re: David Gerrold - War with the Cthorr

Default User wrote:
Sea Wasp wrote:


Default User wrote:

Sea Wasp wrote:



Default User wrote:


How did you both die and not die? If there's only one you, then
why would it matter?

In your hypothetical, there are TWO mes.


What does that even mean? Seriously.

It means what it says. What else do you want me to say?


How are there two of you? What does it mean to have two? They don't
share a consciousness.

I have two of The Tempest. They are identical. They are the same for all intents and purposes. If I lose one, I still have The Tempest, no matter which one I lose.

Both of them are me. From either one's point of view, the other one is him also. They're separate instantiantiations of the same entity, but they ARE that entity, and neither one is lesser than the other.




I just don't believe or even understand how that could possibly be
the case. Unless the bodies share a consciousness, those must be two
separate people. They can't be the same person.

Your religious convictions are not what I'm arguing here.


I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm talking practicalities. Two
separate humans can't be the same person. If they can, explain how.

I just did.



Both of
the entities you would be looking at have the same identity. They
both have done, as far as they are concerned, all of the same things,
hold all of the same opinions, feel all the same feelings, are
capable of identically the same things and are, in fact, utterly and
completely indistinguishable from each other.


Of course they aren't. Divergence began immediately.

You tell them apart, then. Demonstrate that one is fake and one is real. Do it. Tell me how you do it, without having in effect a label on one saying "I'm the copy".



Obviously they're BOTH the real me. I am my knowledge, memories,
preferences, desires, capabilities, etc., and the ability to act upon
all of those.


No, they both THINK they are. One is right.

Both are right.



I have, in fact, no way of knowing whether I was created just ten
seconds ago with the MEMORY of having existed


In fact, time travel provides a counterargument.


Let's not drag an impossibility into an already highly unlikely
scenario.

Nice way to avoid the thought experiment. Answer the scenario. Did
you or did you not kill me in that scenario, and if not, why?


It's a physical impossibility, as that's the same group of atoms. Not
worth discussing, and a red herring to the current discussion. If you
want to talk about that, get someone else.

No, not a red herring. Directly and completely relevant. In both cases you're dealing with an impossibly accurate duplicate (given what we currently know about memories, you may have to duplicate me down to the atomic level or even farther to make a perfect duplicate with duplicate memories.).




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com

.

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