Re: Nothing like oil?

In article <ssCdneuUltXNpCTanZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@xxxxxx>,
Mike Dworetsky <platinum198@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"James Nicoll" <jdnicoll@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:fp9bn8$so1$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In article <u9WdnTN73ddJeCraRVnyigA@xxxxxx>,
Mike Dworetsky <platinum198@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

but I doubt we are gonna find fossil fuels on the Moon, Mars,
Asteroids,
Ringworlds or anyplace else we are likely to colonize or terraform.
No fossils to make fuel.

Titan has craploads of hydrocarbons,

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-release-details.cfm?newsID=814

Our fossil fuels may have a biological stage but there
are other ways to end up with lakes of what I will for the sake
of conversation "oil".


Due to strange behaviour of Outlook Express, the previous comments appeared
to be from me, not the previous poster. For some reason I could not get
reply quote > to work on that message.

Though the fact that Titan has lots of hydrocarbons is not disputed, going
to Saturn, landing on Titan, extracting it, and transporting it back to
Earth for consumption on or near the surface by machines doesn't seem
energetically reasonable to me. (What energy source provides the delta-Vee
needed?) It sounds a bit like claiming that space travel will solve the
population problem, by transporting our surplus mases as colonists away from
earth, when condoms used here are much cheaper.

But the original statement didn't have anything to do with "Is
this reasonable", only "Can we find oil in space."

In theory, it should be possible to move material from Titan
to Earth with almost no expenditure of energy (in the context of
the Sun, we're downhill and it should be possible to use the potential
energy of material 9 AU out to pay for the cost of hauling it off
Titan, away from Saturn and down 8 AU, but I have no idea how to
build such an interplanetary syphon). There are probably more
elegant solutions.

And it doesn't help with solving the global warming problem either.

And I was thinking more in the form of plastics, which are
kind of sequestered.

Also, hydrocarbons are made from the most common element
in the universe and the fourth most common element in the universe.
It's not like making the stuff requires material that we won't be
able to find.

True, but creating molecules packed with chemical energy requires energy
input equal (or greater, given the laws of thermodynamics) to that you will
get out later. It can be done, but the energy source for the process has to
be non-fossil fuel in the first place.

If you're making hydrocarbons as a fuel, it's probably best to
think of them as a battery, allowing energy from some large central source
to be converted and transported in a more convenient form.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: America 2042: White Minority, the legacy you have left your kids
    ... fossil fuels to nuclear power - so that we can have plentiful energy, ... Since we don't yet have fusion power, nuclear power - with the Thorium ... Many cultures and languages, with speakers of all languages being as ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Hydrogen trial in Perth, Western Australia, letter from project official
    ... either manufactured from fossil fuels (with horrendously inefficient waste ... energy would be to replace electricity generated by fossil fuels KILOWATT ... Could it be that your money is easy ... (how does this compare to petrol or diesel buses? ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)
  • Re: Space Elevator/Pipeline for Titan
    ... Titans atmosphere combined with Earth's atmosphere as an energy source ... Titan is synchronized with Saturn, the same way the moon is ... material continually toward Earth. ...
    (sci.space.policy)
  • "30 days" and the eco-wackists
    ... Solar power is cheap and renewable. ... have to re-extract it again with huge amounts of energy. ... The eco-wackists and nut-ball vegetarians and vegans are right about ... fossil fuels to make life easier and rid us from menial labour tasks, ...
    (talk.environment)
  • Re: SRAM or nuvinci electric pedal asssist
    ... ?Let's save the fossil fuels for uses that have ... to recharge batteries at night when grid loads are low. ... Battery-powered electric vehicles do best by replacing automobiles for short to ... We need to prioritize our use of energy. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)