Re: Early Memories

Kurt Busiek <kurt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

On 2007-11-04 10:38:16 -0800, Peter Bruells <usernet@xxxxxxxx> said:

Kurt Busiek <kurt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

On 2007-11-04 09:11:09 -0800, "Brion K. Lienhart" <brionl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:

I'm arguing *against* those people who think that they have memories
from before they were two, or of being born or whatever. They are
basically making stuff up, and convincing themselves its true.
Someone who's never met me claiming better knowledge of my memories
than I have myself doesn't hold a lot of water.
Claiming to have real memories from before the age of two is a quite
extraordinary claim, though.

Not to me, since I have them.

It was unprompted -- it's not a case of me remembering a story someone
told me, but me describing a memory specific enough for the time and
place to be identified by others who were there, but fuzzy enough to
be credibly (at least, to me) the perceptions of an infant. Nobody
prompted me, none of the "added details" have gotten attached to the
memory, and there's nobody I have any reason to want to please by
remembering it. It was a memory I was aware of for years before I
described it to anyone.

The argument against it seems to be circular -- nobody remembers
anything before that age, so anyone who says they do is dishonest or
deluded, and the proof of that is...nobody remembers anything before
that age. It's an assertion used to "prove" itself.


The problem is, that it's blindingly easy to place false memories into
the human memory. It's also blindingly easy for humans to agree with
something or rationalize something if they see it fit.


I find it easier to assume that very few people have memories that
early, which is borne out by the large number of people that don't,
and the small number of people that do. It has the advantages of
including my own experience, and of being flexible in regard to the
idea of "impossibility."

The argument that memories can be falsified applies to people older
than two, but we don't assume therefore that because six year olds can
be made to "remember" untrue things, that all memories reported by six
year olds must be untrue. Just that it's possible for them to be.

That seems far more sensible than declaring that no one can possibly
remember anything before the age of two. That it's rare seems
credible. That it's impossible, so throw out any evidence to the
contrary, is a circular argument.

This kind of assumes that there is no real difference between the
years 0 to 2 and 2 to 6 and so on. However, we do know that the human
brain and mine undergoes severe change during the early age, creating
the perception of "I", for example.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Early Memories
    ... It was unprompted -- it's not a case of me remembering a story someone told me, but me describing a memory specific enough for the time and place to be identified by others who were there, but fuzzy enough to be credibly the perceptions of an infant. ... Nobody prompted me, none of the "added details" have gotten attached to the memory, and there's nobody I have any reason to want to please by remembering it. ... The argument against it seems to be circular -- nobody remembers anything before that age, so anyone who says they do is dishonest or deluded, and the proof of that is...nobody remembers anything before that age. ... I find it easier to assume that very few people have memories that early, which is borne out by the large number of people that don't, and the small number of people that do. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Early Memories
    ... Claiming to have real memories from before the age of two is a quite ... memory, and there's nobody I have any reason to want to please by ... The argument against it seems to be circular -- nobody remembers ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Early Memories
    ... memories from before they were two, or of being born or whatever. ... Claiming to have real memories from before the age of two is a ... attached to the memory, and there's nobody I have any reason to want ... The argument against it seems to be circular -- nobody remembers ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: the busboy
    ... I can date some of my memories pretty reliably to before age 3 ... > earlier than that) because specific details of the memory don't make sense ... I remember my sister being born, a month before my 3rd birthday. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: What Did You Watch? March 4 (Wednesday)
    ... you so - after he reviews the tape a number of times and jots down all ... memories than you do. ... Because of course, "nobody" could have a memory that good, so I have ...
    (rec.arts.tv)