Re: When Titans Clash

On Thu, 24 May 2007 16:43:07 +0100, Gerry Quinn <gerryq@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article <lat85397edqh2t14dv3iggkus2kcljfh2r@xxxxxxx>,
david@xxxxxxxxx says...
On Wed, 23 May 2007 15:59:49 +0100, Gerry Quinn <gerryq@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In article <Xns9938DEF0BE3B1mss2mediaonenet@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
mschiffe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx says...

with "fanfic" substituted for "SF". For example, what
constitutes "creat[ing] a new universe" in a case like
Stoppard's, where the Shakespearian characters do exactly the
same things in exactly the same ways as in the play, with any
additional material added interstitially? How is that the
creation of a new universe in a way that doing the same thing
with Mary Sue and the crew of the Enterprise is not? (Other
than the fact Stoppard's work is probably better: a difference
of degree, rather than kind.)

The new material is hardly "interstitial" - if the play follows
Rosencrantz, Guildenstern and other very minor characters, it is the
Shakespearean material that is interstitial. And the play is hardly a
'Mary Sue', unless Stoppard fantasised about being a minor character
who gets executed.

He didn't say it was a Mary Sue. He asked how it was the creation of
a new universe in a way that Mary Sue's insertion onto the Enterprise
was not.

Then what did he mean by the Mary Sue reference?

I just said what he meant. That Mary Sue is just as much the creation
of a new universe as is Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.


And I answered it -
it is Shakespeare's Elsinore that is interstitial in Stoppard's
universe.

Calling Stoppard's play fanfic doesn't make it so.

However it being an unauthorised derivative work DOES make it
fanfic...in every way except one. He got paid for it.

No it doesn't. Not all unauthorised derivative works are fanfic,

The ones you get paid for aren't.

and
fanfic would still be fanfic if the author somehow managed to get paid.

What do you think fanfic is? There are two elements to fanfic. One
is "Using characters and situations originated by someone else". The
other is "Being an amateur". If you get paid for your fanfic (and by
"paid" I mean by an actual publisher, not self publishing), that makes
you a professional.

Also, the word 'unauthorised' is misleading, since no authorisation was
required.

No authorisation is required for Sherlock Holmes fanfic these days
either, but it's still fanfic.


Just because there's no bright line between fanfic and literature that
uses other works as a jumping off point doesn't demonstrate that there
is no distinction.

There is a bright line. It's "Did you get paid for it?".

Nonsense. No literary form is defined by whether somebody gets paid
for writing it.

Uh-hunh. What makes you think fanfic is a literary form? I have read
fanfic short stories, and fanfic novels. I have read fanfic poetry,
song lyrics and prose. I've even heard of a fanfic video. Fanfic is
not a literary form. The distinction between fanfic and professional
fiction, is legal. It is not one of style, format or quality,
although fanfic is more _likely_ to be bad simply because it includes
everything that would end up in the slushpile of a real publisher.
.

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