Re: Charles Stross and the Destruction of Israel (was Macleod and the Destruction of Israel )

Luke Webber <luke@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:44ee3dc8$1_2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

No 33 Secretary wrote:
Luke Webber <luke@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:44ed4e73$1_5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

I think the best date to choose at any time is _right now_. From
that viepoint, at the time that the modern Israel was created, that
land was in the possession of Palestinian Arabs. Trying to wind the
clock back nearly two thousand years? Not something I'd recommend.

_Right now_, your chosen point in time, Jews possess Israel.

Precisely what I immediately went on to say.

While somehow making it all the Jews fault.

Equally, using _right now_ as our present perspective, we'd be
stupid to try to wipe out the events that led to the creation of the
modern Israel. Unless somebody has a working time machine. We have
to live with the consequences of that boneheaded idea.

Like today is any different than the last several thousand years. The
Middle East has always been a violent shithole.

Ah, but it was a violent shithole with swords and spears, not rockets
and nukes. This isn't just a matter of modern vs ancient times either,
it's a case of deliberate interference by Israeli and Arab supporters.

It's a case of psychotic loons finding some way to blame each other for
all of them, on boths sides, being psychotic loons. And has been, for
thousands of years.

Did they really
expect to be greeted with open arms?
Did I say they did? Maybe you missed the part where I pointed out
that they, too, are mostly composed of psychotic loons.
Well I can't argue with that, at least <g>. OTOH, it's interesting
to note that the level of psychosis is rising all the time.

Or news coverage of it is. Or made up news stories are, because blood
sells advertising. It's hard to say.

And because blood buys more blood. Hezbollah have been deliberately
inflating their civilian casualties because it wins them support in
the form of public sentiment (in the Arab and Muslim world) and
recruits.

And? Nothing new there.

(From what I'm told by a friend who was in Iraq, doing intelligence work,
exaggerating things is a basic part of arab and persian culture,
regardless of religious affliation or much of anything else. His example
was of an informant spotting a couple of guys with an RPG, and reporting
a half a battallion with artillery and tanks - and believing it himself.)

PReviously
sane people tend to become a little psycho when you go around
killing their friends and family and destroying their homes. And I
mean that on both sides.

Indeed. But, again, it's hardly different than any other point in the
last 2000+ years.

Except for global media and those modern weapons.

Global media is about as reliable a source of information as the rumor
mongers and fiction writers of the Roman Empire. Modern weapons simply
make up for population growth over the centuries. Nothing as really
changed.

Yes, I know that the Palestinian
Arabs who didn't flee were not dispossessed, but would that have
been the case if they had all stayed and tried to maintain their
property rights? I dunno. I just know how it turned out. It was a
stupid idea, and that's obvious to me now because of the
spectacular way in which it failed.
Do you have any other ideas that aren't eually stupid in obvious
ways?
Yup. Don't do it at all. The Jews had all settled elsewhere by now.
Why upset the applecart?

You're 50 years too late for that. What do you have to offer *today*?

OK, how's this? Cut off support for both sides. Start treating both
sides equally and not favouring one over the other out of sentiment.
Apply the "rogue state" test without fear or favour and face up to the
possibility that nice guys can do bad things. Cut off the flow of arms
to both sides (as best we can) and see where /that/ leads us.

It's a start at least. You have to start somewhere.

I'd start with orbital bombardment of the entier Middle East until
nothing larger than a virus is left alive, then move in and take over the
oil fields. (But then, I'd do the same thing in Texas, if I were king of
the world.)

But I might be considered a bit harsh.

That's not taking sides. Holy land? Who ever said the new Zion had
to be established on the site of the old Zion?
The Jews who established it. Why is your opinion more important
than theirs? Be specific, and present your reason(s) in objective
terms.
Perhaps because their opinion is what led to the current mess.

Again, you deny the possibility of any measure of responsibility on
the part of the millions of violent, psychotic muslims who live in
the Middle East.

Where the hell do you get that?

From your posts. Now that you've been called on it, you're backpedaling,
but it's still there.

Stop wasting my time.

Indeed, it is a waste of your time to try to troll me.

I made a balanced statement and you chose to
interpret as support for one side over the other.

Until I called you on it, I didn't see a single statement from you that
did not blame the Jews for everything, with no acknowledgement that the
other side(s) are just as violently looney.

I'm done with you
Terry.

You might as well be, since I'm not buying your bullshit.

--
"So there is no third law of Terrydynamics."
-- William Hyde
Terry Austin
.

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