Re: Pi = 3


Aaron J. Dinkin wrote:

> No, what I mean is: there's no reason to believe that, in the universe
> _Contact_ takes place in, the value of pi ever *changes*, i.e., had one
> value at one time and then another value at another time.

What value would it have if God hadn't decided to put a message in it?
If your answer is "the same value", then God didn't put the message in
it. If your answer is "a different value", then it was changed to that
different value.

There's no
> evidence of God or anyone else *changing* the value of pi. What Ellie
> discovers is something that had been true about pi all along, but not
> notices.

No, what she discovers is that her computers say that. Obviously,
trusting them is incrediby foolish and naive.

> > So first pi is fixed by the nature of the integers, and then it's in
> > the "fabric" (rayon?) of space and the nature of matter, and hence
> > alterable by the maker of space and matter. Sagan has two
> > changes--first, of defintion, and then, by God tweaking matter in order
> > to make pi come out some way.
>
> Again, he doesn't say God "tweaked" matter.

Yes he does. "The universe was made on purpose, the circle said", and
"In the fabric of space and in the nature of matter, as in a great work
of art, there is, written small, the artist's signature."

If that isn't saying God made space and matter in a particular way so
as to send a message, and that message was sent via pi, what do you
imagine it is saying?

Clearly something that is
> fixed by the nature of the integers musy be in the fabric of space and
> the nature of matter!

It would make more sense to say the integers are a part of the fabric
of baseball, and hence God could send us a message by tweaking the
rules of baseball. Baseball at least uses integers directly in its
rules. But either way, whether you are fiddling with the rules of
baseball or the rules of matter, what the hell does it have to do with
messages in pi?

But the causality, so to speak, obviously goes in
> the direction mathematics -> physics.

It does? Why?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Pi = 3
    ... The universe was made on purpose, the circle said. ... So first pi is fixed by the nature of the integers, ... the "fabric" of space and the nature of matter, ... changes--first, of defintion, and then, by God tweaking matter in order ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Pi = 3
    ... >> No, what I mean is: there's no reason to believe that, in the universe ... > What value would it have if God hadn't decided to put a message in it? ... > "In the fabric of space and in the nature of matter, ... > of baseball, and hence God could send us a message by tweaking the ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Pi = 3
    ... > Aaron J. Dinkin wrote: ... evidence of God or anyone else *changing* the value of pi. ... > the "fabric" of space and the nature of matter, ... > alterable by the maker of space and matter. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Pi = 3
    ... >> fixed by the nature of the integers musy be in the fabric of space ... >> and the nature of matter! ... > of baseball, and hence God could send us a message by tweaking the ... rather than us being here to observe it as a side-effect. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: Licia Kuennings Farmington Prophecy
    ... not what God will do. ... a scientist refers to as the laws of nature. ... matter and energy, it is in the realm of physics, not ...
    (soc.religion.quaker)
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