Re: WGA Strike 90%+ vote to strike

On Nov 2, 1:18 pm, Josh Hill <userepl...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 22:06:26 -0700, "Vorlonagent"





<nojts...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz" <starf...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:144qbqk03vk82.lxmiziwmmbse.dlg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:46:59 -0700, Vorlonagent wrote:

You really think you can play games with a trillion and a half dollars
and
leave the economy unaffected?

Do you think that's the goal? The goal is punishing achievement. The
consequences are secondary.

That's unfair. Very few of anyone want to punish acienvement. Those that
think that way tend to what to punish those who have "too much" by their
reckoning. That punishes achievers as well as those descendants of achievers
who always had wealth.

But really, Liberal motives for something like this have a variety of
motives and they're good, bad and ends-justifying the means.

The good ones go like this. The poor are powerless and have no political
voice so we must be that voice and lift them out of poverty. It's only a
small portion we ask from those of us who have the most. They won't miss it
and people truly need it

Then we have the gray motivations. The "rich" don't really need all that
money so we can take it if we think it's a good cause--and we have nothing
if not a lot of expensive good causes. Besides, income transfers like this
keep the gap between the rich and the poor from widening so fast.

Then there are the dark motives which you allude to. The rich are evil
because they control "the system" (capitalism) which exploits, burns, global
warms and animal extincts its way across the planet. Any amount of money is
better taken from them so it can do some good. The US is too powerful
anyway. Even if the US economy collapsed, the world would be out from under
the US bootheel, global warming would be averted and we could build the
world back up green and peaceful (because everybody knows the world would be
at peace right now if it weren't for warmongering Bush and the mean old
USA) All those misguided terroists would go away if there wasn't a US or
Israel to oppress them.

Very few individuals run on only one motive. Although these attitudes are
stereotypes, few real people actually are. You'll find most will shade back
and forth from all three groups: Light, Dark, and Gray. :)

And some are more intelligent (even practical) about it and some aren't but
talk in more intelligent terms.

Josh is often intelligent and usually practical, even if his passions run
away with him sometimes. It's just this time he isn't.

While for the most part I agree with your analysis, which seems to me
a bit slanted in the conservative direction but essentially perceptive
and fair minded, I think it's fair to point out that I agree with
little of anything in your third paragraph, and that few of the
liberals I know do either: it's essentially the province of radical
leftists.

Also, I don't think you're right in saying that I'm being impractical
here. Hammer was responding to your understanding of my proposal,
which was inaccurate" I'm talking about bringing people above the
poverty line, not giving everyone in the country a $40,000 income,
which would require an entirely even distribution of wealth --
something that not even the Communist nations ever achieved.

Finally, I think your second point underestimates the value of some of
the things we should be doing, and underestimates wealth. As I
mentioned before, I grew up surrounded by privilege. Rather than
resenting it, I want others to enjoy it, or the truly good things in
it, those that contribute security, comfort, and happiness rather than
empty show or display But I sometimes get the impression here that
some people think of wealth as an elevated version of their own middle
class situation. They don't know what it is to have far more money
than you could ever need, the sheer frivolity of some of the purposes
to which it's put, the fact that much of it is nothing more than
mattress stuffing. That unused money isn't all available -- most of it
is tied up in investment, and has to be. But, in practice, it would
mean nothing to those that have it to restore some of the taxes that
the GOP has cut, and the social and economic benefits of doing so
could be spectacular.



Ok, but is that really what taxes are, a redistribution of wealth from
the haves to the have nots? I don't think so, least not as I
understand things.

More over where is it written (in the rule of law) that those who have
are obligated by virtue of their wealth to give a damn about (or a
dime to) those less fortunate?

The only reason the wealthy should pay the most taxes is because they
make the most money. Having said that you'll never see me shed a
tear for the 'poor' over-taxed top 5% or so. As leaders of industry/
finance this group collectively has an access to government officials
like no other. They exert tremendous influence over government policy
making, limiting their scope and equity. It's our government that
should be taken to task for laundering money on behalf of an elite
few.


lg



.

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