Re: unions

On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:10:19 -0700, Rob Perkins <rrperkin@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On 5/17/07 6:45 PM, in article 0v0q43h17vcnmkjf2q7nviq476pdag0nqf@xxxxxxx,
"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'll note, though, since I've spent a fair amount of time researching
it, that it would /not/ break the economy to reduce the emission of
greenhouse gases to levels that scientists believe will reduce the
worst effects. Arguably, it would save us money and have no
substantial effect on the economy.

Well, that's sort of an eternal principle, isn't it? Use less energy, and
its use costs less money.

Definitely the source of most of the savings. But I think it's
important not to overlook the fact that alternative sources of energy
such as cellulosic ethanol and wind aren't much more expensive than
the energy sources we're using now and may well cost less when the
extrinsic costs are taken into account -- oil and gas subsidies,
pollution damage now and in the future, days lost from work and
medical treatment, the cost of protecting the oil supply and dealing
with oil-funded countries like Iran. The claim that carbon-neutral
energy sources would damage the economy is a shibboleth.

The one thing missing now is
government action, and that will certainly change with the next
administration, Republican or Democratic, albeit those two years will
be costly ones, since time is of the essence -- if we start now, we
won't have to replace much infrastructure before its reached its
design lifetime.

I listened to a relatively poignant Talk of the Nation segment on the
subject of infrastructure the other day, which alleged exactly this sort of
thing. The first proof of the truth of it, I think, is in the age of oil
refineries nationwide, and the fact that the demand for gasoline has not
been met by the building of new refineries.

Every time a nearby refinery around my home goes out for maintenance, the
price of gas goes up 20% or so.

While that's the wrong sort of energy infrastructure to keep improving
(because we want to use less gas, and return refineries to below-capacity
use), it is an example of the problem.

The oil industry likes to claim that the refinery shortage is a result
of environmental opposition, but I read somewhere that the real
problem is that the oil companies didn't find refining profitable
enough and so didn't bother to increase capacity.

--
Josh

"The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet
that people have the right to live life as they please,
as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process. . . .
The radical right has nearly ruined our party. Its members
do not care about the Constitution and they are the
ones making all the noise." - Barry Goldwater

.

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