Re: Atheists: America's most distrusted minority

"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uekta29spvdh78kh9qdpr9kakclku6cdtp@xxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 21:44:05 -0500, "Dennis \(Icarus\)"
<ala_dir_diver@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


<snip>

Jsoh, after I've excvhanged my money for the softweare, it became Bill
Gates' money, and thus he can pass it on to his heirs, give it a way, or
burn it - that's because...its....his.....money.

Sure. But it's not taxed when it's his money: it's taxed when it goes
to his heirs. Gifts and wages are no different: if Gates paid a kid of
his to do a job for him or gave him a gift larger than the annual
deductible, the heir would have to pay income tax on the money he'd
received.

Well, its taxed when its income/profit, right?
So it was taxed.


/That's/ what I'm arguing with. The money is no longer an incentive.

It can be - makes it far easier for the person to do what they'd like.

That's precisely the problem. I mean, if everybody could do whatever
they like, who would take out the garbage or feed the pigs?

Folks who figure they could make good money at it, because there are other
folks who wouldn't.


It siphons money out of the economy and goes to providing people whose

Hmm...ok...lets see if I got this.
Its a valuable part of the economy when it belongs to Bill Gates.
Immediately when it s transferreed to his heirs, its siphoned completely
out
of the economy like an economic black hole.

I disagree with that. One way that I can see where it'd be out of the
economy is if its in cash under a mattress.

It siphons money out of the economy when it belongs to Gates, too. The
difference is that it's rewarding Gates for something he's /done,/ for
the work and risks he put into Microsoft. It constitutes incentive.

And when Microsoft (or pick your favoirte company) can grow based on the
profits, it re-enters the economy.
Its not siphoned off.

And not just for Gates: our whole economy works on the principle of
reward for risk and hard work. Decouple reward from work, and you end
up with the motivational problems of socialism or welfare or teenagers
who know that they'll get their allowance even if they /don't/ clean
their room.

Fortunately, my folks never heard of that last bit.


motivation to work is thereby diminished, just like welfare. Their

It really depends on the person, and their character.

Sure. Some people will work because they prefer to -- some rich
people, some poor people, like the alcoholic welfare recipient who
worked without extra pay as my grandmother's nursing aide. But not
everyone will, and it's those who don't who are the problem.

And you fix "those who dont who are the problem" by punishing.....everyone
else too.
Check.


And excessive taxes can hurt the economy.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E0CE4D91039F935
A
15752C0A964958260

Sure, but the boat tax was a particularly dumb tax, and really, the
issue isn't that simple: the type of tax and economic conditions
matter too, e.g., it may make economic sense to cut taxes during a
recession so people have more money to spend and get the economy
moving again, but when we're threatened by inflation and the deficit
is in the range considered hazardous by economists then it makes no
sense at all.

Then it'd be a bad time to consider aising 'em, because according to
Kerry
the economy is faltering
http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2006/02/13/news/news03.txt

The problem is that the taxes were poorly targeted -- in a
demand-limited economy, one doesn't provide tax relief for the rich,
but for poor and middle class people, because they're more likely to
spend than invest it -- and that the deficit is above the range that
economists consider responsible given current economic circumstances.

I always thought investing is better for the economy.

<snip>

So its ineffective at achieving those stated aims, and yet it
should
be
kept?

You take what you can get: partially effective is better than not at
all.

Regardless of whomever may get hurt in the process, such as being
forced
to
sell the items that made the estate so valuable in the first place.

Not something I'm going to worry about when there are working families
living in cars and kids taking classes in janitorial closets and the
retired naval veteran down the street is worried that his wife won't
be able to keep the house when he dies because the property taxes are
too high.

Good thing the estate tax gives a 0% rate to spouses then, right?

You want to tax spouses?

Didn't say that, nad not too sure how you got there from my comment.
However, by your rationale, what did the spouse do to earn it, if they
weren't working in the company?
Even if they were, they've received profit over their lifetime via wages.
In short, repeat your rationale for taxing the inheritance of kids who
worked in the company, replacing
"kid" with "spouse".


And which school has "kids taking classes in janitorial closets"
This one, maybe?
http://www.cta.org/CaliforniaEducator/v5i8/feature_tour.htm
May, 2001, and it was a tutoring session - not a class though

No, I was thinking of classes in New York City.

That you've apparently found another (I didn't read the link) suggests
that this obscene phenomenon is not a one-off deal.

Go read the link.


And...lets see.....2001....Gray Davis was governor....Democrat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature
Oh hey, California Legislature's been in Democrat hands as well.

Typical Republican smear. The CA schools went to hell after
Proposition 13 limited tax receipts.

So correctly pointing out who was running CA at the time the article in the
link was written is now a smear.
Check.


Why would that matter? The question I'd ask is who pays the most in
/taxes/ compared to /their actual income and capital gains./ Just
try
to find the answer.

Because, any move to cut taxes, will affect "the rich" because they're
the
ones who pay the most.
particularly with AMT.

A tax cut can be directed anywhere. If you're going to cut taxes why
not cut them for the middle class and poor, whose after-tax income has
been static while that of the rich has increased by 210%? There's no
economic justification for this, no social justification: it's just
that the GOP leadership favors the rich.

An income tax cut, when there are only a couple of brackets, can't be
directed very well.
15%-x. 28%-y, etc.

There used to be more, I think. Ideally, the formula would be updated
to take into account the capability of computers, but given that it
requires a bit of mathematical know-how and legislators are involved,
I wouldn't count on it (remember the state legislature that passed a
law setting the value of pi equal to 3?).

http://www.snopes.com/religion/pi.htm

Though the claim about the Alabama state legislature is pure nonsense, it is
similar to an event that happened more than a century ago. In 1897 the
Indiana House of Representatives unanimously passed a measure redefining the
area of a circle and the value of pi. (House Bill no. 246, introduced by
Rep. Taylor I. Record.) The bill died in the state Senate.

Or do you have another reference?

Dennis


..

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: WAY OT: Gas-Gouging Greenspan
    ... but they do not preclude expansion. ... >>> expansion comes from borrowed money most of the time. ... >>after tax spendable dollars being used for expansion. ... > affecting an economy. ...
    (alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots)
  • Re: Why do I smell bacon when Dems say "Stimulus"
    ... :are going to need a tax cut, ... :taxes cut permenent. ... :economy and burst the housing bubble. ... One have only look at the money flow chart to ...
    (sci.military.naval)
  • Re: OT- stimulus humor
    ... The claim is that money in little drabs is just ... created jobs in turn add to the tax base and solidify the system. ... WW II "jump started" the economy, ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.bos-redsox)
  • Re: 1911 Reference Book Cites The Single Tax
    ... The "worth" is based on the absolute amount of money he can take home ... LVT as unique tax are as insane as the suicidal bombers or libertarians. ... use them to do direct investments in infrastructure the economy will be ... Wall Street is gambling not production. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: Another Way to Avoid Microsoft
    ... Gates would pay less tax money if he were less financially successful. ...
    (alt.guitar.bass)
Loading