Re: Atheists: America's most distrusted minority

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:28:16 +0000 (UTC), Kurt Ullman
<kurtullman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <383g82to2freaf9dif20i12etgj4ge4kor@xxxxxxx>,
Josh Hill <usereplyto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


It doesn't, does it. Fortunately, their cockamamie plan pissed off the
remaining Republican fiscal conservatives as seriously as it pissed
off the elderly, what with the vast and senseless increase in
government borrowing it would have entailed . . .

Over and above the borrow that is currently going on? Where does
the "surplus" go? It goes to treasury bills that have to be paid back
eventually. And if ALL spending stopped tomorrow and taxes kept coming
in, it would not make a bit difference in the amount of money needed to
pay back these bonds.

We've gone back and forth a million times. Sure it's borrowing, but
it's borrowing on the part of General Revenues from Social Security,
not borrowing from Social Security. Social Security has nothing to do
with it: it's currently in surplus and probably the best financed
program in the Federal government.

Borrowing by the Bush plan would be in /addition/ to what we already
borrow for General Revenues, and it would in effect be borrowed by
Social Security. In short, it would take a program with reasonable
fiscal underpinnings and turn it into another money loser. And no way
were the fiscal conservatives going to go for that.

Something else that isn't much mentioned is that the privatization
program would be ridiculously complex for what it purports to do, much
like their failed drug plan. Even if it actually produced benefits
rather than reducing the effectiveness of the Social Security dollar
(since realistically contributions for the typical retiree would have
to be pegged to the minimum return rather than the average return,
meaning you'd have to contribute more to get by), it just wouldn't be
worth it. One of the advantages of Social Security is that it's fairly
simple.

There is nothing inherent in the system that would cause that.
Although in real life by the time the horsetrading and other idiocies
inherent in Congress passing the damn thing were concluded the outcome
would be complex. Look at the history of Part D, for example.

Sure. And even if that weren't the case, I imagine it would be more
complex, because at a minimum you'd have to make choices about which
plan to join, and you'd be a member of at least two entities. What's
worse, you'd likely have more complicated dealings with the Social
Security Administration, and we all know what it's like to deal with
government bureaucracies.

One of the reasons I think Social Security works when other government
efforts are inefficient is because it /is/ so simple. Government can
handle relatively simple, low-labor programs more economically than
anyone else, because there's no profit, no promotion, no frills. It's
when things get more complicated that private enterprise becomes more
efficient. The same thing is apparently true of medical insurance:
Medicare pays a significantly higher return on the insurance dollar
than private plans.

--
Josh

"I'm not going to play like I've been a person who's spent hours involved with foreign policy.
I am who I am." - George W. Bush

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Atheists: Americas most distrusted minority
    ... it's borrowing on the part of General Revenues from Social Security, ... Then it spent the money and left government bond obligations in its place. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated)
  • USA: Stealing From Social Security to Pay for Wars and Bailouts
    ... The cost of these wars is enormous. ... government, halted the growth of real income for everyone but the ... American citizens who were out of work and out of their homes. ... It is leading to the destruction of Social Security and Medicare. ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)
  • Re: Budget Deficits Lead to lower or higher GDP?
    ... The government can always pay interest due on the debt. ... A USA TODAY analysis found that the nation's hidden debt — Americans' ... promised under Medicare, ... qualify at age 62 for early retirement benefits from Social Security. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: Newest junk bonds: U.S. Treasuries?
    ... We're discussing growing health care programs, but in reality, Medicare (in ... because they have one redeeming quality over government solutions: ... Medicare and Social Security unfunded obligations." ... an economic condition the United States has not faced since the ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Attention Bush fans ~ Bush says global warming is real
    ... "It isn't the Government's Money." ... violence and incarceration is called "government" how is it that you call it ... Many of the retirees are making more off their non-SSI retirement packages ... Social Security Scheme, so it is in their best interest to keep it as ...
    (sci.energy.hydrogen)