Re: Dark matter/energy - is it real?


"Wayne Throop" <throopw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1144124776@xxxxxxxxxxxx

: Except there is no missing energy here.

How do you know?



Because that's what scientists tell me. If you want to say the
establishment is wrong, then you need to provide some pretty substantial
evidence.




Just as it was with neutrinos, you don't.


That doesn't make any ense whatsoever. We *did* know there was missing
energy with neutrinos.




There is SOME physical process there we don't see. There has to be,
because otherwise F doesn't equal ma, and you have problems with
energy and momentum conservation.
Same as neutrinos.


So far we don't know of the problem is with F, M, or A. I have seen
theories presented for all of them.




You haven't really provided much justification for that something
not being energy (that is, mass).



Yes, I have. Particle physics works better than relativity, and there is no
room in particle physics for dark matter. Processes don't create it, and it
wasn't made in the big bang.

Not only is there no room for it, but there's no explanation for the way it
would have to behave to explain what we observe. Occam's razor says the
answer isn't dark matter at all.




:: Your solution is "throw the gravity out with the bathwater".

: Gravity is the bathwater. It's a theory that doesn't work.

Just like particle physics didn't work... until neutrinos were added.


There was room in existing theory for neutrinos, there is no room for dark
matter.




: Easier all around to simply break gravity.

Why? What does it gain you?



What does breaking particle physics get us? We have no reaon to doubt
particle physics, we *do* have reason to doubt relativity.



: Dark matter supposedly makes up 90% of the universe, this isn't a
: small discrepancy.

So? Why does the numerical size of the specific discrepancy matter?


Because it doesn't fit with other theories. It's too much. If dark matter
is real than just about everything we know about physics and the evolution
of the universe is false.

We have damn good reason to belive in the rest of physics, we have no reason
whatsoever to belive dark matter exists.




Why is it necessary that the universe consist of mostly things that
interact with EM, and not mostly something else?


Because we know how much energy the universe was created with and we know
where it went. Multiplying that energy by ten does not give us the universe
we observe.





If the only discrepancy was the pioneer probe, would your conclusion
be any different?


If the only issue was the Pioneer probe, dark matter wouldn't even be a
theory.




Note well, I'm not claiming einsteinian gravity must be true. But your
justification for saying that it must be wrong enough to totally discard
is
not as strong as you seem to think.


And your evidence to discard particle physics is what? It's not like the
theories aren't extremely well supported by experiments on every scale. If
dark matter affects everything, and consists of 90% of the mass of the
universe, why don't we *ever* see its effects on Earth?

Survey says- because it doesn't really exist.


.

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