Re: Multiple thalassogens
- From: chornedsnorkack@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: 22 Nov 2005 08:37:17 -0800
Logan Kearsley wrote:
> <chornedsnorkack@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1132590793.854970.3360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Logan Kearsley wrote:
> > > Are there any stories about worlds with multiple thallasogens?
> > > (Probably there are, what with everything having been done 20 to 2000 years
> > > before you think it could have been, but I have yet to hear of any.)
> > >
> > > I've read speculation about waterworlds that could have a layer of
> > > hydrocarbons floating on the surface, but that's about all. The obvious
> > > thing to think of next is "what about a world with continents with a thick
> > > layer of hydrocarbons floating over it's water oceans?"
> > >
> > > It seems to me that that might be a way to get around having to have a cold
> > > trap to prevent photodissociation of water- if all of the water is covered
> > > by a second ocean of hydrocarbons, very little will be able to evaporate
> > > into the atmosphere in the first place.
> > >
> > > Some other possible thallasogens whose liquid ranges overlap are CO2 and
> > > SO2. Water floating on liquid CO2 or SO2 won't work, because it'll form
> > > carbonic acid -> carbonate rocks and sulphuric acid, respectively (although,
> > > if all of the calcium, magnesium, and other things that make carbonates get
> > > used up first, maybe carbonic acid floating on excess liquid CO2 would
> > > work).
> >
> > The relative densities of water and liquid CO2 depend heavily on
> > pressure.
>
> True. So either one could be on top, if it's possible at all.
>
Carbon dioxide is always on top. The water can be sandwiched in the
middle if there is enough carbon dioxide.
> > Also, I suspect that the bases would react with carbonic acid whether
> > it is carbonic acid dissolved in excess water or carbonic acid
> > dissolved in excess liquid CO2.
>
> Hence why I specified everything that would make carbonates being used up to
> leave the excess.
>
But even if there are only traces of water, and I suspect even if there
are no traces, large quantities of CO2 or SO2 available for oceans
would react with bases. Unless the bases are used up - but if they are,
CO2/water oceans would work fine.
> > > But what about an ocean of SO2 floating on an ocean of CO2,
> >
> > Dubious. Liquid SO2 is miscible with a plenty of organic solvents, I
> > suspect with CO2 as well.
>
> Hm. I find that odd, as SO2 is polar and CO2 is not.
The difference is there, but not that huge.
> Then again, CO2 dissolves in water. Google doesn't help at all on this
> subject.
> Any idea what you get if you mix liquid SO2 and CO2?
>
I think they probably would not react chemically. My hunch is that they
behave like moderately polar inert organic solvents.
> > > or
> > > hydrocarbons floating on an ocean of SO2?
> >
> > Dubious, for similar reason. Plus, not sure about redox potential.
> > Sulphur is notoriously prone do do nasty tricks there.
>
> Am I correct in thinking that by 'nasty tricks' you mean reacting to form
> H2S and CO2?
> Hm. Liquid hydrogen sulphide might make a good thallasogen, too.
>
Not particularly good. Strong tendency to react with bases. And
relatively easily dissociated to S and hydrogen.
Mind you, there is a world with loads of free reduced S around. Io.
Does not possess dense atmosphere or oceans, though.
Hm... S melts at 119 Celsius. With a slightly higher pressure than on
Earth, you could have a world with an ocean of hot water floating on
top of an ocean of liquid elementar sulphur. In polar regions, the
sulphur might freeze; in tropics, the water might evaporate away,
leaving bare sulphur. There would be quantities of both sulphur dioxide
and hydrogen in the gas phase above. Plus vapours of sulphur trioxide
and sulphuric acid...
.
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