Re: Running space reactors hot

In article <dkck9l$rvq$1@xxxxxxxxx>, Eivind Kjorstad says...

>John Schilling wrote:

>>>These two sources, at least, make no exception for braking maneuvers
>>>which result in a planetary landing.

>> Well if the internet says so, it *must* be true...

>You, on the other hand has, as far as I see, not provided any reference
>for your on the face of it strange claim that using air to brake is
>*not* in "standard usage" aerobraking.

Well, OK. How about Fortescue and Stark, _Spacecraft Systems Engineering_,
chapter eight? Or Larson & Pranke, _Human Spaceflight Mission Analysis
and Design_, chapter ten? Or the hundred thousand or so personal
conversations I have had with professional working rocket scientests,
as far as I can recall completely devoid of any use of "aerobraking"
to refer to a maneuver where a spacecraft (deliberately) ended up on
the surface of a planet?

I don't suppose you know any spaceflight professionals yourself, that
you could go ask?


>Others have provided dictionaries, wikipedia and Nasa. I can add that a
>trivial google-search confirms that ESA also uses "aerobraking" also
>for what the shuttle does to deorbit.

Not technical dictionaries, and we've already established, I hope, that
Wikipedia is an unreliable reference outside of its core competencies.

"Nasa", is not a reference. NASA is an organization; specific NASA
publications, press releases, or whatnot, are references.

And let's have that ESA google result, while you are at it.


>So: Nasa does it. Esa does it. Dictionaries define it so.

Non-technical dictionaries define aerobraking simply as using
aerodynamic forces to decelerate a spacecraft, without any of
the technical context underlying and constraining the term.

Individual NASA and ESA personell may on occasion use the term in
the fashion you describe, even while speaking or composing web pages
on behalf of their organization, but that is not the same as "NASA
does it" or "ESA does it". And I suspect but without actual references
from you cannot confirm that they are mostly using the term in the
usual, standard "orbit to lower orbit" fashion while speaking to an
audience they assume has the technical context necessary to understand
this without having it spelled out.

As for NASA, I can and just did Google for all references to "aerobraking"
in the .nasa.gov domain. Fifteen thousand or so, and you can probably find
a few in there to support your position. But the first hundred, *all* of
them, refer specifically to maneuvers that leave the spacecraft in question
still in orbit about a planet.


>But according to John Schilling, it's not "standard usage".

>Just exactly what does it take for something to *be* standard usage ?

A large majority of the people in the field have to use it in that
fashion. And w/re "aerobraking = atmosopheric deceleration leading
to a landing", they don't.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schillin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *

.

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