Re: ID cards
- From: Alan Woodford <alanw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:15:48 +0100
On 17 Jul 2009 21:51:46 -0400, "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Alan Woodford <alanw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Why not? What are they going to do? Take me to court? They know
I'd win, as they don't have my signature on anything, or any other
evidence that I ordered their product.
Given your history, Keith, you occasionally show a touching faith in
the legal system.
I have faith -- possibly misplaced -- that a company isn't going to
go to great effort and expense to frame me for something I didn't do.
Unlike police and prosecutors, they aren't paid for doing that sort
of thing.
No, the company isn't going to go to much effort to frame you. But I'd
be somewhat surprised if they didn't go to any effort to track down a
possible scam - even though I know it is not you doing the scamming!
They will have a form, presumably, with a signature on it, ordering
the stuff.
Whose signature? Do you think they would hire someone to forge my
signature? How would the forger find out what my signature looks
like, anyway? I'm sure it could be done, but why would they go to
all that effort?
But part of my point was that the company does not know what your
signature looks like - all they have is a form with something which
claims to be your signature.
How much time amd energy, not to mention the possibility of money,
do you really think you would need to spend to prove that you didn't
order the stuff, if the supplier thought you were trying it on?
In the unlikely event they were to take me to court, the burden of
proof is on them. And they would have zero evidence, unless, as I
said, they went to great effort to forge some.
They wouldn't have zero evidence - they would have evidence that
someone claiming to be you had ordered the goods. It should be easy
for you to show that it wasn't you, but I don't believe that one
letter would neccessarily be enough to do it.
If one letter, with a different signature to the original order, was
all it took to stop an order, I'd have thought mail-order business
would have stopped years ago.
Mail order businesses, like all other businesses, rely on the fact
that most people are honest.
That is true, but that doesn't mean that they automatically believe
everything they are told by J. Random Person.
I would certainly expect you to be able to sort it out, but I'd be
very surprised if -just- stating -once- that you hadn't ordered the
stuff would be enough.
I'm under no obligation to jump through lots of hoops whenever some
random person or corporation demands that I do so.
No, but they are under no obligation to assume that you are not trying
some form of scam, either.
A few months ago, I had a problem with my credit card, where some
stuff appeared on my card bill that I hadn't bought. It was
resolved promptly and efficiently by the card provider, but it still
took three phone calls, plus signing a form to confirm that I hadn't
made the purchases.
You have a different definition of "promptly and efficiently" than
I do. Anyhow, you had an existing business relationship with your
credit card company. I was discussing what would happen if some
company I had no business relationship with were to start billing me.
This is how it went:
Day 1
Check on-line building society account details.
Spot suspect transaction.
Phone call 1
Report suspicious transaction showing on my on-line account details,
and discover that there are a couple of others. Arrange reversal of
transactions, subject to receipt of a confirmation in writing, using
the companies preferred form, and the issue of a replacement card.
Phone call 2 (24 hours later)
Ring to activate replacement card that has arrived in post.
Phone call 3 (3 working days after call 2)
Check that form has been posted, as it hasn't arrived.
Arrange to have replacement form posted.
Day after call 3
Two Forms arrive in post. One postmarked same day as call 1, one
postmarked same day as call 3.Make comment to She Who Must Be Obeyed
about the Royal Snail. Return one form in reply-paid envelope.
Two days after call 3
Suspect transactions disappear from my on-line statement. Matter
resolved to both parties satisfaction.
If you can explain to me how it could have been resolved better than
that?
If I had no previous business dealings with a company, I'd expect it
to be harder to prove that I wasn't scamming.
Alan Woodford
The Greying Lensman!
.
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- From: Alan Woodford
- Re: ID cards
- From: Keith F. Lynch
- Re: ID cards
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- Re: ID cards
- From: Keith F. Lynch
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