Re: Which book sounds most compelling?

Jonathan L Cunningham <spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm digressing slightly (or more than slightly), but I perceive a real
risk that people will take one set of opinions too seriously.

I don't. And I think you do a disservice to Michelle by suggesting that
she might. A number of opinions have been expressed on this thread, and
she also has the benefit of the opinions of people who have critiqued
her work (people who have actually read it, no less), and of the
responses she's received when submitting her books.

As I see it, and I'm voicing this as a point worthy of discussion, not a
certainty, quite a few of the regular posters here have idiosynractic
tastes. I, too, but our idiosyncratic tastes are not all in the same
direction.

Of course.

In the nature of things, with a core of vociferous posters who, to a
certain extent, share a taste, this can cause a coterie to develop. One
which need not, and probably /does not/, reflect the majority view (of
book buyers in general).

Of course. But rasfc has plenty of people with a variety of different
tastes; there's no unanimity here that Michelle's writing is the ne plus
ultra of fantasy.

In particular, ISTM that Brian's tastes are of a particular sort, which
is why I felt it necessary to respond to his comments.

Saying "Actually that blurb doesn't interest me at all" is perfectly
fine and a useful data point for Michelle. But saying "That blurb
misrepresents the story" when you've never read the story is foolish,
and insisting upon it when someone who has read the story corrects you
is arrogant beyond measure.

Moreover, they
are an extremum in a direction away from "mass market" tastes, if such a
thing can be defined, in which direction a lof of rasfc denizens can
also be found, but perhaps to a lesser extent. There is no doubt that
Brian is very knowledgeable about language and perhaps, to a lesser
extent, this is true to many others reading rasfc, yourself included.

B.A.(Hons) linguistics, at your service. (IOW, that was an incredibly
patronising thing to say.)

And this, I believe, affects your appreciation of writing.

Now, ISTM that Michelle has a lot of talent, but that her writing is
very much in a style that reflects (a) her own preferences, and (b) her
writing friends and clique (including non-writers, probably), and
possibly (c) the sort of feedback she gets from rasfc.

Well, duh.

Also, again a personal opinion, it is not a style with a huge mass
market appeal. This wouldn't matter if she had already been picked up by
a big publisher, nor if she didn't care about publication, nor if her
style were irreducibly of minority appeal (accepting for the sake of
example that I am correct in this diagnosis).

You would have more credibility if you didn't insist on diagnosing
things you've never seen.

This personal opinion is the one I am least certain about. Maybe this
style is much more popular than I imagine. But I remain, for the moment,
of the belief that something /similar/ to this style could be popular,
but the actual style is too much for the majority. I don't think that is
condescending: rasfc is a self-selected group. It's collective taste is
bound to be off-centre.

The thing that's condescending about it is your assumption that you're
the only person who's ever considered the fact. Michelle *knows* that
the story is not for the majority, and both Brian and I have explicitly
acknowledged the fact in this very thread.

But if, as I believe, relatively trivial modifications to her style
would greatly enhance it's appeal, make it more accessible, without
losing her distinctive voice, then if they are within the scope of what
Michelle *might* write, we are not helping her by giving only praise for
what she has written. We should be pointing out what (we perceive as)
the things that detract from mass market appeal. To do otherwise is to
ask her to write for an audience of one - oneself.

This is not a useful way to critique.

Pfft.

Also, unless Michelle forwarded you the crit I wrote of her story, you
have no grounds to judge the kind of critique I gave her.

And moreover, if I like a story then I'll damn well tell the writer I
liked it, and if I adore the way it's told then I'll damn well tell the
writer so. (And, for the record, I did and I did.) That doesn't stop
me from telling her what bits could be improved. (I did that too.)

That said, it sounds like the particular novel in question cannot be
"salvaged" for the mass market, if I may put it so crudely. Only such
discerning palates as yours and Brian's will be able to appreciate the
subtle flavours, and mere plebs like me will spit it out. OTOH, perhaps
that suggests it is not the right piece to submit to the agents'
competition?

That could be. And your opinion as regards the blurb is perfectly
reasonable. But, again, you have *no* credibility when you attempt to
judge the "salvageability" of a novel you've never read.

Summary: what is the purpose of a crit? Is it to express our own
preferences, and push the writer in that direction, or is it to try and
help the writer achieve /her/ objectives, whatever those might be?

That doesn't summarise what you've written above at all. What you've
written could perhaps be summarised as "Is it to express our own
preferences and to help the writer write the story she wants to write,
or is it to disregard both our own and the author's taste in order to
"salvage" the book for mass market appeal?"

And it's still a false dilemma.

Summary: Stick to judging what you've actually read.

Zeborah
--
Gravity is no joke.
http://www.geocities.com/zeborahnz/
rasfc FAQ: http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html
.

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