Re: Bible Chronology question - OFF TOPIC

On Apr 30, 10:53 am, Bill Swears <wswe...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
DougL wrote:
On Apr 30, 12:38 am, Bill Swears <wswe...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Jacey Bedford wrote:
OK, so this is off topic, but I figured someone would know. I've got a
bunch of folks staying at my place and two of them got into a discussion
and want to know which came first, the creation or the casting of
Lucifer out of heaven.
We figured it was the Creation because wasn't God supposed to make
heaven and earth at the same time? But bear in mind I'm a committed
atheist and my knowledge of all things biblical is very scant.
Help.
Jacey
(And why didn't god's editor make him do a timeline and a decent index
for the blooming book?)
There is a decent index for the book, but the devil being cast out is
still prophecy, from Revelation 12:9.  In that, Jesus is born to a woman
who then has to flee the devil's wrath.

In Job, the devil talks with God and convinces him to conduct the events
we think of as the test of Job.  I asked a Rabbi about this several
months ago, and my impression is that the Jews of the old testament
thought of Satan as one of God's Angels, who did generally unpleasant
things, but was generally under the aegis of God's will.  I think he
would more nearly fill Loki, or Hermes role than he would Pluto or Hades.

Yep, there is NOTHING in the Jewish bible connecting any two of the
Serpent in the Garden of Eden, Satan, and Lucifer. All three occur in
separate books and make no reference to the others and have no
similarity of name.

The Jewish view is that Satan is simply an angel playing "devil's
advocate" and doing so while working for God and with God's permission
and cooperation.

A reading of Job where Satan is also the serpent and Lucifer seems to
me to require that God is behaving totally unreasonably. He sits down
with a declared enemy who he's already exiled (twice!) and hands him
one of his faithful followers to torment? What's with that? For that
matter why would the Serpent/Lucifer ask God for permission?

DougL

I couldn't talk about the present day Jewish view, since the Rabbi
didn't answer the question in that context.  We were generally
discussing the Akedah.

Modern view would largely be that the entire book of Job is one of the
most obvious allegories in the bible. The mention of Lucifer isn't
much better. And no one but nutcases takes the creation in Genesis
literally.

So the modern view would be that not only is there nothing equivelent
to the Christian concept of the devil in the bible ALL THREE of the
little bits of the bible Christians have cut and pasted togather and
added stuff to to create their devil character are allegorical and
unlikely to be talking about real characters.

DougL
.

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