Re: Gods in fiction.

Tina Hall wrote:
I think I've adressed this before, but once again I'm wondering where gods could come from.


Why, how lucky you've got ME! From personal experience, I can...

Wait, what was that? I forgot my medication again?

More seriously, this is an issue of importance in my own fantasy universe. On Zarathan, there are several catagories of deities, sorted according to their origin and/or the origin of their power:

1) The Primordials. A "Primordial" is a deity that Is, Was, Has Been, and Ever Shall Be. There are two, and only two of these in my multiverse -- the One and the Enemy. Some universes have the gods spontaneously appear with the universe, others have the gods exist before the multiverse and create it. Primordials generally have access to power so basic to the multiverse that it allows them to do things that even other gods cannot do; alternatively, in some authors' universes, the Primordials are so ancient that almost all their power is gone.

2) Worship-powered. These deities are beings who derive some or all of their power from the belief/worship of mortals. There are two subdivisions in this area: Beings who have some existence outside of the belief of their worshippers, and the Worship-Created, who come into existence because they're being worshipped. In both cases the amount of power the deity has available is strongly dependent on the number -- and sometimes the fanaticism -- of its worshippers. BOTH types are very, very strongly influenced BY the belief of their worshippers, such that a Worship-Created deity may change appearance, abilities, and relationship to others in its pantheon if the focus of the religion slowly drifts over time. Because this is annoying to many other gods, such deities tend to be more interventionary and active than others, partly to make sure that the religion stays pretty much as it is (unless the deity itself feels change would be good; this can get to be a very complex set of questions.)

3) Essentials. These are beings who have deific power independent of worship (and who aren't Primordial). Some of these CAN be also worship-powered but they can do many god-level things without any worshippers at all. Essentials tend to have their own agendas that they achieve through their worshippers, or through direct or indirect action.

4) The Created. A Created deity is a god which was made, generally by another deity, and which usually has a very specific purpose. This may range from a very general and broad set of deities ("All rivers have a River God, and they were created by the God of Water") to a god or godlike being created for a single specific purpose (Guard the Key at the End of Time).

5) The Ascended. These are mortals who (usually for extraordinary service to a deity, or for incredible achievements or uniqueness that caught a deity's eye) have been transformed into gods. In my multiverse, such deities have a difficult time initially "playing the game" -- they want to go meddle in mortal affairs as much as they did when they were mortal. They also tend to upset things in the world of the gods, if it is usually stable. In areas where ascension is relatively common (from a god's point of view), they're like having children -- they're the "family events" of the pantheons, even if the gods can also have children more the ordinary way.

6)The Self-Created. These are mortal beings who in one way or another have FOUND the key to the power of the gods (or one of the powers of the gods) and brought themselves up to their level, or perhaps even beyond. Sometimes these are purely "researcher" types, who delved into the essential nature of Power until they found the final key, and sometimes these are beings who found ways to literally fight their way up the deific (or demonic) food chain, TAKING the power from their defeated enemies until they reached the level of the gods.

Given these different types, the origin of gods can be pretty much as diverse as you can imagine. Some (the Primordials) are, or can be, like the Judeo-Christian God, the One True Power in the universe, and all the other "gods" are its children, its dreams, its creations, etc. The Worship-Created can be pretty much anything -- it depends on what stories resonated with their originators. A specifically Created deity can serve any purpose you can imagine another deity wanting someone fulfilling. Ascended and Self-Created can have any personality or origin that fits for mortals in your universe.

Within a pantheon, you can even have mixes. The Norse Pantheon, in my multiverse, is headed by an Essential but the rest of the pantheon is Worship-Powered/Created based on the stories the Essential (Odin) gave to the early worshippers.


So for your purposes, it might be easiest to cast the reasoning in purely mortal terms and just translate that to similar actions in the realm of the gods. The disappearance of the Good God could be from as direct an action as "murdered by the Evil God" and the traces of power the good witches can still use are the equivalent of the blood-spatter and decaying body parts, or as more complex as "corporate takeover" where the Evil God has used deific politics and pressure to force the Good God out of the limelight; he still has some power but the way in which he can give it to his followers is severely limited now that the Evil God is Chairman of the Board, so to speak. Maybe Evil God managed, not to kill the Good God, but seal him up in a prison or send him to another dimension far away. All sorts of possibilities.

From my point of view it's also important to define, for your purposes, what you consider a god to BE, and what their abilities are. If you have more than one god, you can't have "omnipotent" as their characteristics, at least not without running into paradoxes immediately (God A creates a stone that God B can't lift, or -- more seriously -- two gods get in a squabble, one wanting to create a world, the other to destroy it, who wins?). I have gods in my multiverse with power levels ranging from "has to work to wreck a mountain" to "can create multiple universes with a wave of a hand".


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Atheism: we have no positive evidence (but just ignore the fact
    ... Like Christianity, those religions are theistic. ... would not deny the existence of other gods. ... deities, only it calls them demons and angels, and occasionally, saints. ... God and have no power of their own. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: plot-noodle request: mythology
    ... A major priest/acolyte/knight of Valentas worked long and hard, and was the presumptive heir to rule the order, and then was passed over for some one else. ... He worked out his whole life, and into his death guardianship, learning, gaining power, developing followers, and making deals. ... Naturally, the Good Guyshad all the Good spirits locked in to their sphere of influence, so all that were available were the Bad ones, and that is what he dealt with. ... They are made of many parts, each a piece of the many minor gods and spirits which made up the coalition that made him, including the Earth Mother. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: OT- Will Your Job Survive?
    ... The premise was, if you can't have "real" slavery, the next best thing was the gods and clods system of class where the gods had the money and power and the clods would serve their needs. ...
    (rec.crafts.metalworking)
  • Re: {kjd-exp} Nodes of Power
    ... I've wanted a way to define 'places of power' for a while. ... Some gods have no nodes, and are now at demigod status (however, they ... adjacent to the controlled node. ... capturing C could lead to the addition of three more domains. ...
    (rec.games.frp.dnd)
  • Re: Another bunch of Flood Question....
    ... of all gods to hero-worship? ... into a deity who has individual characteristics. ... And the real-life power structure co-opts the gods into ... ethnic tribes of Britain gathered under a single religion? ...
    (talk.origins)