Re: Reintroducing myself.

In message <ddfr-AD03CF.17194705012008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, David Friedman <ddfr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
In article <LWv0l$BBu2fHFw$u@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Helen Hall <usenet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Er, what are the trigger words?" one naturally asks, anxious not to
arouse the sleeping beast.

"Well, that is a bit of a bugger," someone says. "To tell the truth, no
one actually knows. Last week someone said 'Lemon cheese' and he nearly
had her leg off, but he's quiet now, so just chat away and take no
notice of him."

I think there are two different ways this can happen, both probably of
interest from a writing standpoint. One is that, as you say, someone
misinterprets what someone else says.

Misinterpretation is easily dealt with by a quick correction, though sometimes (to pursue my analogy a little further!), the dogs of war have already been let slip, they have scented blood and have suddenly turned deaf to anyone shouting that they should come back now. :(

The other, and more interesting, is that someone says something he
thinks noncontroversial because he and most of the people he knows agree
that of course it's true. Because this is conversation with quite a
diverse group of participants, someone else, who correctly interprets
it, strongly disagrees.

This is exactly the one that's causing problems. People say things that to them are non-controversial, not because they expect everyone to agree with them -- they know quite well that there are different opinions in the world -- but because they expect that IN THIS PARTICULAR VENUE we are operating in conversational mode.

To take an example I think imaginary, someone might easily say, in the
context of a discussion of something else, "of course we have to have
government." As it happens, at least two participants in the sf groups,
probably more, are anarchists, hence don't see that as "of course" at
all.

This is indeed the very sort of comment that often triggers a non-useful and ill-tempered digression in the normal flow of discourse.

But other casual comments are not taken up in a similar manner. I don't recall that anyone's done it, but take another imaginary comment. Someone whose sick relative makes an unexpected and complete recovery might say something like, "Of course the prayers of the local church made all the difference."

Would this statement be taken up and savaged by the atheists in the group? I think not, though many people might privately believe that the prayers made no difference at all.

All some of us are asking is that this "agree to disagree" status is awarded to a wider range of topics than at present. If this were the case, then we could safely discuss things of use in fiction without the whole thread dissolving into a ping-pong argument.

For fiction it doesn't matter if things are "correct", they just have to work within the context of the story. Those who want to argue the merits and demerits of the different political and economic systems are very welcome to do so, as long as it's strictly within context of a specific story. The moment it turns into any kind of attempt by one person to convert another to the "correct" way of thinking about how the real world should be run, it's not appropriate for this forum which is about becoming better and more skilful fiction writers.

Helen

--
Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk
_A Legacy of War_, a fantasy murder mystery, now on the web at:
http://helenkenyon.livejournal.com/413.html
.

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